Why Rome Fell - 210 reasons

[Epictetus]

Here are 210 reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire, apparently compiled from various sources by A. Demandt in the 1984 book Der Fall Roms.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/rome/210reasons.html

It has some popular ones:

12. Attack of the Germans
32. Christianity
198. Taxation, pressure of

Some quite insightful ones:

6. Agrarian slavery
30. Centralisation
80, Excessive urbanisation

And some downright bizarre ones:

21. Bolshevization
43. Culinary excess
46. Decline of the Nordic character

Some are contradictory, such as totalitarianism and excessive freedom. Anyway, it is rather interesting.

[Nathan Ross]

Very strange! I particularly like 'immoderate greatness' and 'lack of seriousness' (!!), not to mention 'concatenation of misfortunes' (which is another way of saying 'all of the above', I suppose...)

Even so, they missed a few. e.g.:

211. Excessive trouser-wearing

:grin:

[Dan Howard]

Too many beards. Things started going downhill when they stopped shaving like proper Romans.

[M. Demetrius]

212. Indecisiveness on military tunic color.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

213. Lack of Disposable Toilet Paper.

Because the thought of re-usable sponge sticks is so enticing.

The Huns helped the Roman Empire more than they accelerated it's decline

[AMELIANVS]

214.Names like Biggus Dickus.

[Kai]

Some are contradictory, such as totalitarianism and excessive freedom.

Sure they are contradictory, hilarious and silly at times. Just to clarify they are not what Alexander Demandt advocates. These 210 reasons are reasons he found in other people's works and he collected them in this list. This particular book of his is titled "Der Fall Roms. Die Auflösung des römischen Reiches im Urteil der Nachwelt" - the Fall of Rome. The Dissolution of the Roman Empire in later assessments. It is thus a study entirely devoted to the reception of the Fall of Rome by later generations, not a study on the fall itself. As such, one should not be too surprised seeing rather strange reasons in the list.

[Epictetus]

Just to clarify they are not what Alexander Demandt advocates. These 210 reasons are reasons he found in other people's works and he collected them in this list.

Yes, I mentioned at the outset that they had been compiled from various sources. I would like to find out who some of those sources are. While the funny ones seem to be getting most of the attention, I think some of those listed were intriguing. For instance, how could "excessive urbanisation" have contributed to the fall? I think the urban structure of antiquity is very fascinating, so I would like to explore that idea.

[Kegluneq]

215. The godlike Colossus of Constantine sets an impossible standard for male beauty in Rome. Unable to match the cultural expectation of being 12m tall and made of marble, the male citizenry of Rome lack the self-confidence to resist barbaric hordes.

For instance, how could "excessive urbanisation" have contributed to the fall? I think the urban structure of antiquity is very fascinating, so I would like to explore that idea.

Roman towns worked well in regions that were already urbanised, but they were a very artificial imposition in the western empire. It probably took a lot of time, money and skill to keep towns in Roman Britain simply existing, if they served primarily for state administration purposes. Of course, I don't know if that's what the original argument was, it might simply be a reference to banquets and bathhouses and the moral decline that accompanied them...

[M. Demetrius]

For instance, how could "excessive urbanisation" have contributed to the fall?

Well, if too many people migrate to the city, like happened in Rome, for the free food, no taxes, etc., there are too few to work the farms and manage production. For a welfare state (bread and circuses free) to work, there must be increased import of goods, services, and supplies to feed the increased numbers of recipients. Without that, the urban area becomes filled with discontented population, which endangers the city itself. The seeds are well watered for a civil revolt. Harbinger if ever I saw one.

[Lyceum]

Ha, the sad thing is spend enough time with history...particularly the history of history, and one understands the sources of so many of those bizarre ones.

Too many beards. Things started going downhill when they stopped shaving like proper Romans.

Wait don't have you have like pretty accomplished beard? I must be thinking of someone else.

Actually though, despite the fact that modern popular culture has built up a sort of dichotomy between clean shaven Romans and bearded Orientals, beards in Rome had a sort of...antique air about them and Juvenal and other poets can employ "bearded men/kings etc" as short hand for their ancestors. So often, in later periods, beards were a revert to type and not orientalism.

215. The godlike Colossus of Constantine sets an impossible standard for male beauty in Rome. Unable to match the cultural expectation of being 12m tall and made of marble, the male citizenry of Rome lack the self-confidence to resist barbaric hordes.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner of the best one ever LOL. Honestly though this does remind me of some Byzantine historian from....I think the 11th or it may be 12th...touring the statues and reliquaries in Constantinople and commenting on their ethical characters and at one point just pointing out how handsome someone was.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

For instance, how could "excessive urbanisation" have contributed to the fall?

Well, if too many people migrate to the city, like happened in Rome, for the free food, no taxes, etc., there are too few to work the farms and manage production. For a welfare state (bread and circuses free) to work, there must be increased import of goods, services, and supplies to feed the increased numbers of recipients. Without that, the urban area becomes filled with discontented population, which endangers the city itself. The seeds are well watered for a civil revolt. Harbinger if ever I saw one.

That was a major cause - the loss of Africa meant the Romans could no longer support their welfare state. Aetius cut taxes on some landowners, put taxes on the Rich (something they had been avoiding because the Italian landowning class controlled the senate, but the gallic landowning class still paid taxes) and a number of other laws in order to fund his army. He also got rid of the burdenous tarriffs on foreign merchants and some of these measures re-vitalized the farming industry in southern Italy. The west was still horribly in debt and still needed massive cuts though.

[Alanus]

216. Excessive eating, and puking on slaves.

[Alanus]

217. Repetitive Stumbling.

If you Stumble repeatedly, YOU WILL FALL. 8-)

[Valerian Pertinax]

214.Names like Biggus Dickus.

Compounded by their failure to wewease Wobert.