I'd like to make a paludamentum like the ones shown in these photos, and I'm having a difficult time figuring out exactly what the overall shape and dimensions should be. I'm also having trouble understanding exactly how it should be folded and worn. I've tried to search and read everything on this site about cloaks and paludamentums, but I'm still having trouble. I'd greatly appreciate any help you can give me.
I'd like to make a cloak that looks and can be worn as shown in these photos. I really love how this red paludamentum looks, and how it doesn't appear too large and is worn where it only covers the left shoulder. I also like the length of both cloaks in these photos. I'm about 5' 7" tall, so I wonder what dimensions I would want in order to make it look like this.
I've read Cheyenne's and other people's posts, where it was mentioned that the paludamentum should be about 3.5m x 1.5m, and that it's basically cut as an elongated half-octagon; a squared-off half circle. I'm wondering if that would end up being much larger than the ones in these attached photos. I'm not going for perfect historical accuracy, but I do wonder whether the cloaks in these photos look correct for a paludamentum. If it should be an elongated half-octagon, I'm trying to figure out just what that should look like - the lengths and shapes of the various sections. One person posted that it's basically like three equilateral triangles, with each triangle having sides of 64" - does that sound right? That wouldn't quite have all of the sides and edges of a true half-octagon, but I can see how it's getting close to the same basic shape.
How is a paludamentum normally folded and worn? Do you fold over the shorter section lengthwise, and have that folded edge over your left shoulder? Or do you typically drape it over your left shoulder with the longest edge - unfolded, against your neck? I think I'm somewhat familiar with wearing a correct Roman toga (correct me if I'm wrong) but I'm confused as to how wearing the paludamentum or similar cloaks differs from wearing a toga. It sounds like a toga and paludamentum end up being similarly-shaped garments, although my understanding is that a toga is typically an elongated oval that's folded over about 1/3 along the long side, with that folded edge draped over your shoulder and against your neck. I made a large, hopefully authentic toga once and that's how I wore it - looked like most ancient Roman ones I've seen in sculptures, etc.
Also - is it possible and appropriate if I want to have the option to sometimes where this same paludamentum centered - either with a fibula centered in front of my neck (without armor or harness), or instead where it's attached to my harness on each shoulder and simply drapes down the middle of my back? I've seen lots of photos of Centurions and Generals wearing it like that - attached to their armor or harness at each shoulder, but I wasn't sure if it's actually the same shape and design of paludamentum, which they also sometimes wear over just one shoulder. THANK YOU very much for any help you can give me. I know I'm new here and I'm not very well-versed in these things; I hope no one minds. I'm not trying to make a garment that's absolutely period-correct. I just want to make a cloak similar to these paludamentums (or sagum) in these photos, which I can wear with a few different costumes. Thanks again very much,
I'm wondering - when worn on a person, would this white paludamentum look just like the ones shown in those previous photos I posted? Would it be worn the same way - over your left shoulder, secured on the right shoulder with a fibula, and it basically just covers the left shoulder and side of your body? This white paludamentum seems much fuller and bigger than those other ones in the photos I previously posted, but it's hard for me to tell. Thanks again very much for any help
Are those actually paludamenta in the illustrations? They look more like the familiar sagum. I thought a paludamentum was draped more like a mini-toga. But what do I know?
BTW, the color picture looks sort of like Julius Caesar. Is it?
A paludementum should be half circular shaped, this is how you will get the proper draping, but it really shouldn't be that large. The paludementum should be smaller than a sagum, and you should be able to wear it on just one shoulder or around the neck as shown in your pictures. You can see my avatar picture to see how i wear mine.
I know there are a few different kinds of cloaks, I know there's the Sagum, Paenula, Clamys, and Paludametum, but there's one more... doesn't La Wren's Nest Sell it?
EDIT: It's the Abolla. Anyone know what era it dates to? The latest I've seen is the reign of Severus (Early 3rd century)
The paludamentum was the traditional officers cloak.
As no Paludamentum survive or have been identified, it is impossible to be certain what size or shape it was.
In the past attempts have been made to determine the shape based on sculpture. However as the paludamentum is normally worn rolled up onto the left shoulder and draped around the body or over the left arm it is very difficult to determine the shape.
In most cases even a brooch is not visible so it would appear it was possible it stayed in place on the left shoulder by its own weight and the fact that the wearer did not, or was not, able to move very much!
The standard colour was either scarlet red or purple as we would expect for senior officers. Perhaps the fact that it was not very practical would account for why officers and even emperors are frequently seen wearing the other types of cloak. On Trajan's Column for instance Trajan himself can be seen wearing a paenula hooded cloak and a sagum with a brooch on his right shoulder.
The military sagum as mentioned in a surviving order for clothes was 2.66m long by 1.77m wide. It has been suggested that the paludamentum was the same shape and size as the sagum but had the two lower corners cut off at an angle. However as stated above there is no solid evidence for this. It should be fairly obvious that a paludamentum would be made to a much higher standard and dyed with the best quality dyes as opposed to what odinary soldiers would have access too.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Thank you all very much for your feedback and help.
M. Demetrius - I honestly don't know what type of cloak that is in those two photos I posted; I assumed it was a paludamentum, but I'm still learning the differences between these various types of cloaks.
Graham - thank you for your help, and I wonder if I could ask you - what type, shape and size of cloak do you think they're wearing in those two photos I posted? My main objective is to make something which I can wear so it looks just like in those photos - that's what I really need help with. That color photo in red - I'm not sure if it's Julius Caesar; I just happened to find the photo online and that's the type of cloak I want to wear. Thanks again very much for any help
Thank you very much M. Val. Brutus, Flavius Aetius, Mr. Sumner, and everyone else.
I definitely take your point that the paludamentum should be a little smaller, and I don't want mine too large. I want it to fall to about my knees - not all the way to the ground or my ankles.
Here's a quick sketch I did for a paludamentum, showing to to be sort of a half-octagon and about 96" x 48". I think this is about what La Wren's Nest uses, as their site says theirs are 4' x 8'. M. Val Brutus and others - do you think this shape is appropriate? Or would I be better off actually making it rounded - like a true elongated half-circle? Again - I'd like to make it look just like in that first photo I posted; that drawing of the man wearing the red cloak. I definitely want it to hang over my left shoulder AND be secured on my right shoulder with a pin; I won't be able to wear it as shown in your avatar and how many others wear it - just on the left shoulder alone.
I'm also really wondering - if I make it in either this half-octagon shape or a true rounded, half-circle (which I assume should be an elongated half-circle) - how do you fold it, wear it and pin it so it looks like in that first photo I posted with the red cloak? Would you fold the shorter lengthwise edge over partially, or perhaps would you fold over the longest edge a bit, and then lay it over your left shoulder? And when you pin these on over your right shoulder - do you pin the corners? Or, what seems more likely, do you simply gather two sections from along the longest edge, wrap them around your neck, and then just pin those two sections together- from the middle of the longest edge (rather than the corners)? If that's the case, I'd assume that if you look closely in these various ancient sculptures, you should usually see the four corners hanging somewhere - two lower corners hanging by the ankles or knees, and then the other two corners hanging higher up - mid torso, etc.
Is it also commonly accepted that paludamentums were sometimes a simple rectangular shape also?
And one last question - I'm assuming that the way you wear a paludamentum is that when it's draped over your left shoulder, the longest edge is closest to your neck (which is basically a straight edge) and then the rounded edge is the one that hangs down your left arm - correct? If anyone wants to advise me how to fold it, wear it and pin the paludamentum using my design, you can reference those letters I used for each corner. Thanks again very much everyone - greatly appreciate your help.
It sounds like you would be happier with a Sagum type cloak which can be worn as you have posted and by the method you propose. I have supplied the only known measurements above.
The material is folded in half, side to side not top to bottom, otherwise that would be really narrow. Now turn the material so the fold is at the top. Step inside and gather and pull the top left of the material over the right shoulder and pull the other right top half over your left shoulder and up to the material you have gathered on your right shoulder and pin it with a brooch. After being pinned by a brooch on the right shoulder the cloak is worn so that the inside piece of material and the outer piece of material can be flicked over the left shoulder. Sometimes ancient art shows one half flicked over the left shoulder while another half hangs down, covering the left half of the body.
It looks like at some point I am going to have to illustrate this! :dizzy:
As I stated above there are no surviving examples of the Paludamentum type cloak. Therefore we can not say "it should be smaller", or " it must be this shape", or "it must be that size". We simply do not know.
The design you have illustrated is one of the shapes proposed although the suggested measurements in for example 'The World of Roman Costume " by Sebesta and Bonfante are much bigger.
There were a number of other rectangular cloaks as Evan has mentioned. The differences between them were obviously clear to the Romans but when all we have now are uncoloured sculptures to work from, they all look very similar to us.
I hope this helps.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
When I say it should be smaller, I'm mostly speaking from my experiance with wearing it. If the cloak is the same size or larger than a sagum, then there is a lot of material essentially doing nothing but being in the way. If you gather it at the shoulder it creayes a huge bulge, if you let it hang, then it drags, and if you wrap it around your arm, then it gets heavy.
You are correct, when I where mine, I secure it to the musculata, pin it back to itself, with the long edge close to my neck, and the rounded side out in space, this creates really nice looking folds when I wrap the cloak around my left arm, as is seen in many sculptures.
when I wear it around my neck it will generally hang around to the top of my knee, it's much arder to secure this way though, as it tends to ride up on your neck.
Thank you Graham so very much for all that help, and thanks a lot M.Val.Brutus. Wow- these things sure are hard for me to accurately imagine and picture using just text descriptions, lol. I'm thinking that I will make my cloak out of linen, because I'll be wearing it in a warm climate and linen should give me the nice folds and pleats, and will drape well.
Thank you again for that great description of how to fold and wear the sagum cloak. If I were to make mine using that illustration that I posted- in basically a half-octagon or elongated half-circle shape, how would you suggest I fold it, wear it and pin it? The same way as you suggested for the rectangular sagum? If so, it sounds like in every case that someone wears any sagum or paludamentum over the left shoulder and its pinned on the right shoulder, you would end up seeing at least two corners hanging down- one in front and one in back. However, I don't remember often seeing those pointed corners hanging down in illustrations and modern reproductions of people wearing the dressier, more billowy and lightweight, pleated and flowing cloaks- as in my photos. Do some people today make it as a fully rounded, elongated elipse with no pointed corners? That's how I made my large toga years ago; I found a pattern online and read somewhere that's how a toga's supposed to be made, and mine looked very accurate when I wore it- without any pointed corners visible. My toga was basically a much larger version of that illustration I posted, however each of the corners were gently rounded off- so it basically looked like one third of a very large elongated circle, joined along its straight edge, to the straight edge of one third of another smaller elongated circle. The reason I ask about this is that whenever I see photos of ancient Roman sagums and paludamentums, I typically don't see any pointed corners hanging down- so I get the impression that perhaps all of the corners have been rounded off.
Thanks again very much, and I'm definitely making progress and getting a better understanding of it with your help. Thanks!
All I can suggest is have a go and see if it works. Post us the photo results.
Remember Romans wore cloaks indoors even in hot climates, it was the fashion. They did however have lighter cloaks in summer and these would still have been of wool. You can get very fine wool which should give you those nice folds.
I totally agree with you Brandon. I too have had many struggles with voluminous pieces of material! The tunic dimensions are also huge even by modern standards and if we are to believe that the Romans were smaller in size than our generation. I do however think that many re-enactors use material that is probably too thick, especailly when you consider that the Romans had overcloaks and undercloaks too. If your paludamentum gets too heavy perhaps you could try finer material.
Most surviving tunics were reduced in size by tucks around the waist but that still leaves a lot of material at the sides to play with. That was one reason why Nick Fuentes suggested that a secondary belt was worn over the shoulder which kept the surplus material on the right side away from the sword pommel.
I have shown this belt in my Avatar. Seeing that made me realise I forgot to mention that the character in my Avatar is also wearing a paludamentum cloak too. It is based on the funerary portraits from Egypt. Now they do all show brooches worn on the cloak, unlike the sculptures.
Best wishes.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
The best way of folding the paludamentum in my experience is like a fan or the same as the way a bellows on an accordian folds. This is pinned on the left shoulder only and is carried like a toga. For the victory parade only.
I would think an ordinary (but slightly more fancy) sagum would be more than enough for the optio to ponce around in for every day use
Thanks again very much Graham, Brandon and Cheyenne - great advice
I know this might be improper, but I'm wondering if it's possible or practical for me to make just one cloak and have the option of wearing it three different ways -
I'd like to be able to wear it as you've described a typical paludamentum - just like in M.Val Brutus' and Graham's avatar - folded neatly with pleats and hanging or pinned ONLY on the left shoulder, and then perhaps I'd carry it over my left arm. Secondly - I'd like to be able to wear it like a sagum - worn over the left shoulder, pinned on my right shoulder, and mostly folded back over the left shoulder and arm - so it mostly hangs behind me and partially covers my left side. And finally - I'd like to be able to wear it centered and hanging in the back - probably with me pinning it to my harness on both shoulders.
Will this be possible to wear it in all three of these ways, and would you therefore recommend I make an elongated half-octagon or half-circle shape, or should I instead use a plain rectangle shape? Thanks again very much everybody
