Salvete<br>
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I have just purchased a nice Sumner print of 3 Sarmatian cavalrymen returnig to Chester waering what appears to be a locing scale cuirass in a rather Hellenistic style. The depiction is dated c175AD.<br>
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Matt Amt's site shows some genuine locking scale dated to 3rd Century (if I remember right).<br>
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Questions; would 3rd century locking scale have been utilised in a cuirass similar to the 2nd C sarmatian?<br>
If not how would it have been used?<br>
How widespread was the use of locking scale during 3rd C or any other period?<br>
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Valete<br>
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Mummius <p></p><i></i>
I have done a reasonable amount of research on locked scale. I think it was very common throughout the second and third centuries.<br>
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I have handled examples from Arbeia and Chesters Roman fort. I have also seen many examples in photos, books and museums from England,scotland,germany,danube region to Turkey.<br>
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I have not seen the picture of the Sarmations so I can not comment on it. I have made 5 cuirasses of locked scale all different to each other. I do wonder what they would have looked like in the Roman times.<br>
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If the artist has visualised them in a helentistic style I could understand that. I made one suit in that style with the shoulder parts overlapping the front. I was influenced by the depictions of scale armour of the Palmyans from the same period. I made it that way because of the problems of locked scales: 1) It is hard to get on and 2) most wires brake along the top of the chest, along the base of the decorated plates and the line above the decorated plates where it joins the shoulder part. By having the shoulder parts loose, tied to the chest and not wired to the chest made the suit easier to put on. It also took a lot of tension away in the wires at the top of the chest area.<br>
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It is also best to make a cuirass using narrow scales - 10 mm wide. This gives more flexability around the sides of the stomache. I have used 18 mm in one suit and when the cuirass is lying down the wires on the sides all spring loose. This does not happen with the 10 to 12 mm range.<br>
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I made one cuirass influenced by the carlisle found. All the scales over the shoulders are tapered. Wide at the base and norrow at the top. This works well, very well! I will be using this method for my next one.<br>
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I normally make them all side opening with ties on the shield side. Except one cuirass which I made front opening. I did this to experiment like I do with all the others. They are not easy to put on. The front opening one is the easiest to put on, just like lorica segmentata. The reason for this was the decorated chest plates. I had seen many examples and part of my mind was nagging me about some of them and that they do not open up that well. Some of them are just wired like scales to the scales in the same alignment. To make these ones open up well they have to be wired horizontaly and not vertically. I never found any like that. Other plates are just studded onto the scales, these can not really open up much. Some plates are studded at the base of the plate as well as the sides, I do not think they would open up at all. Unless the cuirass is made in the same style as segmentata, front opening with buckles or ties along the lenght of the stomache. This would make sence. This is my own opinion, I cold always be wrong.<br>
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Oh. One last thing. if any of you are going to make one, put in a linnen linner or thin leather one. Just lace it on to the leather edging. If you don't, the wires will pull your hair out, scratch your face and tangle with your tunic. <p></p><i></i>
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Hi Paul,<br>
I agree with you on the front opening theory. I have built armour of lamellar scales before, and from experimentation, it is much, much easier to get on if it opens in the front, like segmentata. I too, do not know if this is the way the historical ones truly were, but it works and wears better, and makes more sense. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>
Lucius Aurelius Metellus
a.k.a. Jeffrey L. Greene
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Paul,<br>
Could we see some pics of your scale shirts?<br>
I'm thinking about making one locking-scale cuirass for me in a future, using embossed plates at the front/neck opening.<br>
Most part of the material is third century in date but I recall some loose scales coming from Corbridge and which could be dated in the fourth century...<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
I have some pics. How do I post them here? <p></p><i></i>
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Paul, the best way I've found is the free-hosting offered by [url=http://www.photobucket.com/" target="top]photobucket[/url] You must create an account and upload your pics (nothing bigger than 250 kb) there. Then, copy the URL address of the pic and paste it here!<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Yes, Aitor is right about Photobucket. It is very easy to use, and it's free! I use them, too. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>
Lucius Aurelius Metellus
a.k.a. Jeffrey L. Greene
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Thanks. I did it!<br>
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photobucket.com/albums/v457/paulcarrick/<br>
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There are 4 pics. I have only photographs of 3 of my locked scale shirts. The extra picture is a close up of the curving shoulder scales.<br>
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I hope it works. Copy and paste. <p></p><i></i>
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Paul, I think that you should copy and paste the URL of each individual pic, not that of your album...<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Hi Paul,<br>
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Wot's yer password?<br>
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Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
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I was avoiding to be so straightforward, Robert!<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Many thanks, Paul!<br>
I thought that the slit created by the front embossed plates plus the neck opening would suffice to clear the head (unhelmeted, of course) when taking on and off the cuirass and your experience has showed me that things aren't so easy<br>
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BTW, is the Carlisle shoulder made of locking scale or just common scale?<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
Hi<br>
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The picture of the X-ray of the Carlisle scales show it to be locking scales and not normal scales. The pattern of the scales from the X-Ray is the same pattern I see when I construct a shirt from the inside view. This is something that I see because I make them. Every one else just sees the front pattern of wired and overlapping scales. Do you understand? I'm not being rude. <p></p><i></i>
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Then evidence plus practicality means that we should follow the Carlisle pattern when making a locking-scale shirt. Now the following question is if the Carlisle fragment belonged or not to a shirt with a pair of front embossed plates...<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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