Quote:Thank you. I showed my teacher some of the depictions of the scale helmets and he said he would be willing to help me build it.
Glad to hear it! Yeah with the links Dan posted and the diagrams I'll post, it shpuld be pretty clear. I'd suggest using .032 "Rich Low Brass" sheet for the scales --available now through the company Metalliferous.
Qui sepeliunt capita sua in terra, deos volantes non videbunt.
--Flavius Flav
He was generous enough to make one for me too and charged me way too little for all the work involved. He made me promise to post a photo of me wearing it, which is in the first thread he linked to. http://z8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Ce...topic=1120
Well, Dan really is an armour expert, and I felt he should have one, as they are hard to come by (experts and scale helmets)! Also, he was taking a chance on something somewhat experimental, at the time. I've gotten wonderful armour from Jeffrey Hildebrandt when he first went commercial, for crazy low prices. Now that folks know about his amazing abilities, he is charging a bit more (still not enough, IMHO), so I think paying it forward is the right thing to do.
Qui sepeliunt capita sua in terra, deos volantes non videbunt.
--Flavius Flav
Hello Spiros,
I am going to post the information here: http://z8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Ce...getnewpost
Because the only reason I can post on RAT is because of cookies on my tablet. I worry that if I have to login again I won't be able to, and I've never had a temporary login code to retrieve my passwords work on this forum (I've tried many times, and have helped many people at my job do it successfully on other sites). Please feel free to copy and paste diagrams, instructions to this forum, if you'd like. Eventually when I have time I will do that, but for now, I'll post them at the above link.
Qui sepeliunt capita sua in terra, deos volantes non videbunt.
--Flavius Flav
Quote:There are some things you'll need to make the helmet:
1. Some large pieces of cardstock (not cardboard). Get several pieces of the large 36 inch square ones. A light color is best (light blue is ideal). You'll need to use this material to make a mock up of the helmet basis (the leather shell you will sew the scales on). You will also make the models (patterns) for your scales from it, and later the face and backplate for your scaled Corinthian.
2. Scissors
3. Pencil and eraser
4. A ruler and ideally a flexible cloth or plastic ruler.
5. A small awl (about 1/8 inch diameter) (you'll use this to repeatedly jab yourself when sewing on scales!)
6. Needle-nosed pliers or other small pliers (you'll use this to grab the end of the needle and pull it through when you are sewing scales on.
7. Some tapestry needles --large enough to get waxed linen cord through, but not too large to get through the holes on the scales when threaded. Beware the bad needles made from brittle metal that will shatter. You'll have to experiment to find the right size, and then buy a number of them. You might want to get a couple of curved glove sewing needles too.
8. Some twelve-ply Irish waxed linen cord (one spool), natural color (expensive): http://www.royalwoodltd.com/cat14-17aw.htm you'll use this to sew the scales on. Don't think you can use a lighter ply or hemp cord, or something that frays! Beware! I'd also order a spool of the four-ply light rust cord too.
9. A Whitney punch, to hand punch the holes in the metal scales. You might get away with creating a jig and drilling holes in a number at once. I have done all of mine by hand.
10. A center punch (if you want a boss on each scale)(sand the sharp point down slightly), like the lowest one seen in this picture: http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/w...rpunch.jpg Or a chisel to strike a short longitudinal ridge in each scale as seen in the vase painting. You would then ideally cut a shalllow groove into some hardwood and create a jig, and strike the ridge into the scale over the groove. You might get away with doing it on a thick piece of leather or lead instead. Experiment.
11. Ball-peen hammer to use with chisels to emboss scales or dish or curve them si they fit better, as needed.
12. Some 10 or 11 oz vegetable tanned leather (for the cap [basis]):Ideally you would want to visit a leather store with your paper template to choose specific scraps or pieces, as there can be variations in thickness in a larger piece of leather:http://d31snyb1jsf9xb.cloudfront.net/servi...ersion.png-600x
(has to be vegetable tanned "veg tanned"): you can figure out how much you'll need one you have the cardstock mock up of the leather cap (basis) done.
13. 20 gauge rich low brass sheet, or 20 gauge commercial bronze sheet. Both can be found at Metalliferous: http://www.metalliferous.com/mobile/Rich...ents/3144/ http://www.metalliferous.com/mobile/20-G...ucts/1980/
Don't mix the two metals, they look a bit different. The rich low brass would be preferred.
14. Some heavy natural linen (a yard or so), to create a one-layer liner to go under the leather basis that the scale cord will also go through. You could use a double liner, if you want to.
Posted by Todd Feinman. I put them here for easy access.
Quote:1. Measure around your head with a cord or tape ruler right above your eyebrows and above your ears (around the largest circumference of your head). Add 1.5 inches to the measurement, and divide it by eight. This is the measurement for the base of the wedge in fig.1, above.
2. Measure from right between your eyebrows up the middle of your head to the very top (center of the crown where your hair grows from. Add an inch to that measurement. This is the measurement from the center of the base of the wedge in fig. 1, through the center to the top point.
3. The first two inches or so of the sides of the wedge (fig. 1)at the bottom need to be perpendicular to the base, as the one row of scales around the base will have straight sides, with no incline. Above that vertical part at the bottom, the wedge will need to curve subtly up to the point as shown (fig. 1). You'll want to do a number of drawings of the wedge before you come up with one you like. The more rounded the curve on the sides of the wedge, the more rounded the helmet will be. The straighter the lines, the more conical. You want to get it more rounded (because of the crest you'll add later), but not so much that the helmet will flatten out near the top; you still want some rise. The curve also needs to be a smooth arc --very important.. AND THE WEDGE MUST BE BILATERALLY SYMMETRICAL! Easier if you fold it in half along the center line and cut it out that way and unfold it.
When you have drawn a good wedge with the correct measurements and cuurvature on the sides, cut out the drawing and trace the edges onto some cardstock and make a precise cardstock version of the wedge.
4. Make three more exact copies in cardstock. With some painters' tape that you can remove without tearing the cardstock, carefully tape the sides of the wedges together exactly at the edges.
5. Get in front of a mirror and hold the half helmet basis on the side of your head. Push the top down until it's about an inch above the top center of the crown of your head and observe the curvature and fit! It should be a regular curve, not abrupt or misshapen. You want it similar in roundness to half a hemisphere, but not flat at the top.
6. If everything checks out, cut out four more exact cardstock copies of the wedge by tracing the most perfect of the four. Tape all of the edges together and put it on your head and check it carefully in the mirror. Remember that the bottom two inches or so should be vertical for that rectilinear row of scales at the bottom.
7. Take one of the cardstock wedges from the helmet and prepare to draw and then cut out a bunch of cardstock scales to create what can be seen in fig. 2.
Quote: Fig. 2 is the key and secret I (re)discovered that allowed me to reconstruct scale helmets that imbricate upwards or downwards and even to make disc helmets. If you look closely, you'll notice that the scales are flush against the left curved edge of the wedge (as closely as possible given their shapes and sizes), while on the left side they all overlap and extend over the edge enough so that the one hole on each scale that laces to the next overlapping scale hangs out into space, just enough to line up with the holes on the scales they would overlap on the adjacent wedge that would be next to them on the eight wedge leather basis or cap. Not sure how far they should overlap? Just look at the scales and their holes on the left side of the wedge and measure how far in they are; they are just like the scales that would have to line up with the holes on the right. The hidden right edge of the wedge is indicated by a ditted line under the scales. Look at fig. 4 to see again how the scales overlap and are laced together through the one hole. As the right edge of each wedge's scales would have to overlap and line up with the holes to the wedge to the right, everything works out. Now, because of grasual misalignment from sewing etc. It's possible that occasionally when a row of scales meets up with it's beginning scale in the circle, it won't exactly lign up with it's hole. The solution is to get the cardstock out again and make a custom scale (same hole pattern) to cover the gap and meet the other hole. WHEN YOU START THE INITIAL SCALE IN EACH ROW, JUST KNOT IT THROUGH THE THREE VERTICAL HOLES ON THE LEFT OR RIGHT OF EACH SCALE, SO THAT WHEN YOU CLISE THE CIRCLE, YOU HAVE THE OPEN HOLE ON THE BOTTOM TO LACE IT THROUGH AND CLOSE THE CIRCLE (row). I say "left" or "right" because the HOLE PATTERN REVERSES, IN EACH ROW, AS THE SCALES ALTERNATELY OVERLAP TO THE LEFT AND RIGHT AS THEY GO DOWN THE HELMET. See fig. 3.
Quote:To create the cardstock scales seen in fig. 2, it's easiest to trace the outline of one of the wedges on some drawing paper with pen, then draw lines for the bases of the scales horizontally across the wedge, then draw the scales over it in pencil, erasing and redrawing as necessary. MAKE SURE YOU ALLOW ENOUGH HORIZONTAL OVERLAP OF EACH SCALE TO COVER THE HOLES (LACING) AT THE SIDES, AND ENOUGH VERTICAL OVERLAP TO COVER THE LACING OF EACH SCALE AT THE BOTTOM. NOTE THAT YOU WANT THE SLOPE OF THE SIDES OF EACH SCALE TO BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE SLOPE OF THE CURVED SIDE OF THE WEDGE!! (Notice how they line up on the left side of the wedge in fig. 2!!). BEWARE! THAT THE BASE OF EACH SCALE DOESN'T OVERLAP THE LACING HOLES OF THE SCALES IN THE ROW BELOW IT!! YOU WILL NEED TO EXPERIMENT WITH HOW CLOSE TO PLACE THE VERTICAL HOLES TO EACH OTHER.
So, once you have some good scales drawn, make a couple of photocopies, and take one and cut one perfect scale from each row out of the paper, carefully trace it onto cardstock and cut out a perfect scale for each row. Indicate the holes with pencil on each (remember the pattern reverses from one row to the next), and punch the holes into the cardstock scales with the 1/8" (I think) Whitney punch bit. You can use the next smaller for the smaller scales near the top, just be sure you can get a needle threaded with twelve-ply linen cord through it.
Quote:LOOKING AT FIG. 2 AGAIN, IT DOESN'T REALLY SHOW THE SCALES ON THE RIGHT HANGING OFF THE EDGE FAR ENOUGH! THEY NEED TO EXTEND OUT FURTHER TO COVER THE SEAM BETWEEN THE WEDGES AND OVERLAP THE HOLES ON THE SCALES ON THE EDGE OF THE ADJACENT WEDGE. MAKE SURE THAT THE SCALES ARE BIG ENOUGH THAT THEY DO OVERHANG FAR ENOUGH.
Quote:So you have the cap and a wedge of scales all worked out in paper..
Now to make the leather cap or basis. Using the leather mentioned earlier, carefully trace the outline on the leather with a pencil eight times, and use some large metal shears to cut out eight precise wedges from the leather. Using your awl, put holes about .5 inches in from the edge of each wedge along the edges of all of them, making sure they are exactly adjacent to the holes on the other wedges (the holes should be in the same place on each wedge). PUT ABOUT SEVEN HOLES ALONG EACH EDGE, AND PLACE THEM IN THE MIDDLE OF EACH ROW OF SCALES SO THAT THE SCALE LACINGS DON'T INTERFERE OR BECOME TOO CLOSE TO THE HOLES THAT LACE THE WEDGES TOGETHER!! BEWARE. It is okay to lace a scale THROUGH one of the wedge lacing holes if that becomes necessary, you just want to avoid the holes being too close and causing a tear or bigger hole in the leather. To lace the eight pieces together, use a tapestry needle and the twelve-ply linen cord. You want to STITCH THEM TOGETHER MAKING SURE THE EDGES MEET UP EDGE TO EDGE WITH NO OVERLAP!! If you stitch them too tightly, they will overlap, and throw everything off. Push them edge to edge with your fingers while you are sewing them together. The bottom two holes on the cap should be sewn together separately (just to the adjacent holes, and not part of the whip stitch that will go through the rest of the holes on the eight seams of the cap --that way, if your scales end up not reaching all the way to the bottom, you can use the shears and trim the bottom edge off, and if necessary the bottom holes, without severing the cords that bind the other holes together. To sew the holes together at the seams above the two at the bottom that are separately stitched together, tie the first holes together with two overhand knots, then on the inside of the helmet, go diagonally up to the next pair of holes, loop through the pair of holes twice and then go diagonally up on the inside to the next pair of holes, loop through them twice, go diagonally up on the inside.. Until you get to the top two holes, and then end it with two overhand knots. So from the outside you would see two horizontal rows of lace connecting each hole (including the two separately tied holes at the bottom), but on the inside of the helmet, you would see one horizontal lace between each pair, part of a zigzag pattern going up the seam. Do this to each of the eight seams, and you will have a leather cap!
To make the linen liner that will go inside the leather cap that will also have the scale lacings sewn through it (thus making the construction very strong), get some strong natural linen, and get it wet and let it dry --iron it flat if necessary. Linen needs to be pre-shrunk this way, or if it gets damp later, it can shrink and DESTROY EVERYTHING.
Take the paper wedge and trace it onto a piece of the linen, THEN DRAW ANOTHER LARGER OUTLINE ABOUT 1/8 inch outside of the wedge outline. Then safety pin the layer to several others with the pin right in the middle of the wedge drawing. Might want to use a couple of safety pins. Holding it carefully, cut the wedge out of the top layer and the wedges below it with the shears might help to dampen the pre-shrunk linen first! Do this until you have eight linen wedges. Put one wedge on top of the other and start the stitch with two overhand knots right on the inner outline (actual wedge outline), so that the stitching will run up the wedge 1/8 inch in from the edge.
Just do a simple running stitch and finish at the top with two overhand knots. You might want to separately stitch the lower part just like you did with the leather in case you need to trim the bottom to fit exactly in the leather cap.
Gone crazy yet?? Wait till you make and sew on the scales! Bwaha, bwahahaha! blink.gif
Continue to hold the edges together of the other linen wedges and sew them up the same way until you have a duplicate of the leather cap! Put the linen cap in the leather cap so that the seams match up, and then with the thinner rust colored linen, sew the linen cap to the leather cap through the same holes in the leather cap-- do them all separately --one loop and two overhand stitches through each pair of holes. You might very well need to use the awl to push holes in the linen in order to sew through it. Be prepared to bleed as you will stab yourself with the awl an awlful lot! wink.gif
You may need to trim the bottom of the linen a bit, but your basis should be all done now!!
Now for the bronze scales. Use a fine sharpie to trace your cardstock scales onto some bronze sheet and then cut them out carefully with the shears. Punch the holes with the Whitney punch. These will be your MASTER TEMPLATES. Use the template and sharpie to trace the scale outlines onto the sheet bronze. Make one row's worth of scales in bronze and then sew them on, before you cut the next row. REMEMBER, AS THE SCALES IMBRICATE UPWARDS, YOU WILL BE SEWING ON THE TOP ROW FIRST AND WORKING YOUR WAY DOWN. PUT THE MASTER SCALE TEMPLATE OVER THE SCALE BLANKS AND USE THE SHARPIE TO MARK THE HOLES THROUGH THE MASTER's holes onto the blank precisely aligned below it. MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS PRECISE!! DON'T BE AFRAID TO TOSS OUT AN IMPERFECT SCALE --you might do it quite a bit..Use the center punch mentioned earlier, or the chisel and jig to put a boss or short medial ridge in each scale.
I suggest using a blunt center punch to blunt the sharp edges of the holes left by the Whitney punch --just push the blunt end into both side of the hole and forcefully wobble it around --this will prevent fraying later.
Make sure your scales stay in an even line --maybe use a pencil to draw a line across each wedge at the level of the base of the scales. As mentioned before, when you sew on the first scale in a row, start it on a wedge in the same place it is in on the left side of the wedge in fig. 2 --right against the seam. And head right or left from there depending on the row --REMEMBER THAT THE SCALES IN THE ROWS ALTERNATE OVERLAPPING FROM LEFT TO RIGHT --THAT IS WHY THE HOLE PATTERN IS REVERSED IN EACH ROW. WHEN YOU SEW ON THE FIRST SCALE, AS MENTIONED BEFORE, JUST USE THE THREE VERTICAL HOLES AND SPARE THE TWO HORIZONTAL ONES, AS YOU WILL USE THESE TO SEW THE LAST SCALE TO THE FIRST, WHEN YOU COMPLETE A ROW!!! It reall helps to lay dowj the scales on the wedge you are going to go across TO MAKE SURE THAT AT THE END OF THE WEDGE THE SCALE WILL OVERLAP ONTO THE NEXT WEDGE AND THAT THE HOLE WILL LINE UP WITH THE HOLE ON THE SCALE STARTING THE NEXT WEDGE. DEPENDING ON HIW MUCH THE SEAMS OF THE LEATHER BASUS JUT OUT,YOU MIGHT NEED A CUSTOM MADE SCALE (wider) TO GO OVER THE SEAM (MAKE IT FROM CARDSTOCK FIRST).
When you get to the bottom row of scales, they have the extra row of holes along the bottom --this is where you can sew on or perhaps rivet the Corinthian faceplate piece, and the backplate piece on the back. Make the templates for those with cardstock first. The flange on the backplate you can beat over a metal bar or edge of an anvil, and the edge of a blunt repousse chisel held in a vice. First conquer the scaled cap! When you want to add a horshair crest in a wooden crest block, you could secure it with leather cords running through two symmetrical holes near the center top of the faceplate and backplate. There will be a small opening at the very top of the scale cap -- you can put a didc of leather inside the helmet at the top, and run two cords from the center of the crest block through two holes in it and tie it securely, to hold the crest box in the middle!
ONE MORE THING. For the upper two or perhaps three rows of scales, you might want to use a simpler hole pattern --this was done on Scythian helmets too. It can be tough to get a lot of holes on a small scale AND also cover all of them with another small scale at that point.. You will be able to tell with your cardstock scales BEFORE you cut bronze for them.... At the very top row you could resort to just two horizontal holes near the bottom edge but not too far down, and double- loop the cord through it before moving to the next scale. You MIGHT want to use the hole pattern I will post in just a minute, but BEWARE, I have never used it myself, but it would probably work.... Will draw it up and post it in a second!
ere is the simpler scale pattern that COULD work, for all, or just the upper rows. Remember the bottom ROW MUST HAVE AN EXTRA ROW TO ATTACH THE FACE AND BACKPLATES!
Odds and ends:
When you add a scale to the leather cap, position it first and lightly mark through the holes onto the leather with the tip of the awl, remove the scale and then push the awl through while supporting the leather and linen from the back to stabilize it. You WILL poke yourself sometimes, and if you start to bleed get your hand away from the helmet immediately so you keep it nice and pretty.
USE THE NEEDLE NOSE PLIERS TO WIGGLE AND GENTLY PULL THE NEEDLE THROUGH THE HOLES, BUT BE CAREFUL, BECAUSE IF YOU FRAY IT, YOU WILL HAVE TO UNLACE IT BACK A COUPLE OF SCALES, TIE IT OFF, AND START WITH A NEW CORD ON THE NEXT SCALE..
This is NOT an easy project, and it MIGHT not work for you the first time.......
If you have questions let me know!
Oh! You can also use the BRONZE AGE CENTER forum search to look for "scale helmet" to see pictures of the process for similar helmets, that I have posted in the past. If the forum search doesn't work (it should) let me know!
Oops! I said that the holes to sew the leather wedges together should be .5 inches in from each edge. THEY SHOULD ACTUALLY BE .25 inch in from the edge.
Qui sepeliunt capita sua in terra, deos volantes non videbunt.
--Flavius Flav
Well thanks you for the information but I am hoping to get a Corinthian helmet and model it off of the size of the helmet but would I need to do the 8 parts to it or could I use say one piece of circular leather and fix it to be the size of the top of the helmet? Also could i just rivet the scale individually to the helmet or would that not work?
I think the multiple posts should be put in to one document, cleaned up, images included, and posted as a PDF file. I've started on this and can send to you for correction before putting in here, but it is too good not to do so. Would this be ok with you?
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Back on RAT in late 2007 a fellow posted his techniques for mass producing scales. I don't remember his name but the photo series illustrated everything you needed to know. He did have some heavy duty tools, and he may have had a welding tool, but perhaps it could be done without those.
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
