08-06-2014, 05:13 PM
Quote:This is a very interesting topic indeed, and best regards to the reenactors of the female gladiators, I think is very cool and admirable, and for sure something to watch (as the ancient Romans would probably had a guilty pleasure to watch as well)
From what I read there are quite few primary sources talking about women as gladiators (or at least training themselves as such, full gear and all), including sometime even free women (as it was the case with free men citizens as well), possibly doing it just for the thrill.
I think Juvenal mention something about this (in a negative tone, as something not cool for the conservative and patriarchal Roman society) and the Senate or some emperor had make a law that said that free women and men under some age (20 or 25 if I remember correct) were not allowed to participate as gladiators in fights in arena.
I doubt as well that female gladiators (who were probably not very numerous anyway) would have been normaly put to fight one on one against a professional or trained male gladiators, or at least that would have been some exceptional event.
Even at equal or close skills the man will be most of the time significantly stronger so have an advantage from the start, and I do think Romans wanted a balanced enough fight (executions of prisoners and such are a different matter).
I am not saying is impossible (and some women can be quite strong as well, physically speaking, and very skilled) but I doubt it would have been something common.
I forgot that article I read, not sure how close to reality was, however it was said that most probably female gladiators were fighting against male gladiators during group fights, when two groups representing opposing armies or units/troops fight eachother. And women (included in one or both groups) more then probably would have use bows and arrows (maybe riding a chariot) as primary weapons (like the mythological Amazons).
I imagine that at some point they may come to sword fights too vs male gladiators during the fight, but not as intended from the start.
Women warriors were not that unheard in ancient times, beside the (half) mythological Amazons (I do think the myth have a real base, even if probably was then at least a little exaggerated by later authors imagination) there were other examples.
Like the poetess Telesilla and the women of Argos who defeated a Spartan invasion, but yes, these were not common things.
As someone mentioned here there was an entire female army corp in Dahomey (in XIX century Africa, true), and they were quite renowned for their military prowess, so I think is not impossible to exist some similar custom in ancient Africa as well.
I am trying to be constructive but the examples you cited have some holes in them.
1. The Amazons lose; there is no way around it. We have taken the amazon idea from the Greeks and made it our own; but the Greco-Roman idea of the amazon always loses to Greeks. This doesn't indicate that one of the exceptions you cited could be a basis for the inspiration because if it is shouldn't they have some victories? An Amazon queen is given by Hercules to his friend Theseus as a gift to be his bride. It is also interesting that Achilles and Ajax are unimpressed by another Amazon Queen and treat the duel as over before it began; and that Achilles has genuine remorse for killing her as if he could have spared her (which would indicate a massive gap in abilities). The always losing factor indicates to me if there is an origin in reality of the amazon myths it isn't one of the rare exceptions of women going into battle; it is in married life being tough but the husband has to fight and prevail (ancient Greek opinion not mine at all).
2. I don't know of any evidence for Mycenaean contact with West Africa; Dark Age Greece is called Dark Age essentially because trade links and writing ends during it; and by Archaic Age it is far too late for anything from then on being an inspiration.
The reason I am pointing this out isn't to try to ruin amazons to people on the forum; it is to try and give back context to an Amazon vs Gladiator fight.
The mythological actual record of Amazons leaves room for a fixed rule of don't kill the Gladiatrix; but allow a professional gladiator to face her otherwise unhindered. The point of the games wasn't to kill gladiators it was to entertain a crowd and showing the abduction of Antiope by Hercules would have been entertaining.
About the sources you mention keep in mind that Domitian was not one of the deviant emperors so the fact that he enjoyed female gladiators indicates it wasn't considered a threat to patriarchy in Ancient Rome.
Dan
