Nice - The jpg description says British Museum - do you know which piece it is part of?
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Quote:Nay, 'tis the usual way gorytoi were worn in early times. I wouldn't know how its speed compares with a right-hip quiver, but it's not as awkward as it looks.
I think Dan is correct. In this early period, the Parthians and Scythians wore their swords on the right hip, so the gorytos had to be at the rider's left. The arrow could be easily withdrawn when firing to either side. If the rider used a thumb draw, then it would be even handier... especially when firing a Parthian shot. mile:
PS: there's a nice portrayal of a Parthian firing his classic shot on the cover J.P. Mallory's In Search of the Indo-Europeans.
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Interesting; the reconstruction shows the archer aiming his shot, yet this artefact shows a more "instinctive" shot. From this depiction, I'd want my quiver on the left, too.
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Quote:Nice - The jpg description says British Museum - do you know which piece it is part of?
Unfortunately not. I got it from Wikipedia years ago. If they have filed it properly, the image must be stored in at least one of those three categories:
Quote:Nice - The jpg description says British Museum - do you know which piece it is part of?
Hi, found some information on that piece from CAIS 'The Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies'. Caption says.
A charming Amazon warrior woman delivering a' Parthian shot'. A figure from the lid of a bronze dinos or cauldron of Etruscan origin excavated at Santa Maria di Capua Vetere, sixth century B.C.E. I have some other greyscale shots of the same figure but low res originals so fine details of Stefan's original one are lost.
Quote:Ovid and Virgil and others, who caught on very quickly to the metaphorical application. They, like Proust in the quote above, seem to attribute this tactic to women.
You might be right as the rider on the cauldron lid is an Amazon warrior and the rider on the cover shot from "In Search of the Indo-Europeans" also seems to be an Amazon or at least feminine so it might have originally been attributed more to women or Amazons in their artwork predating Rome's encounters with the Parthians as I am sure steppe horsemen or horsewomen had been taught this tactic since they got onto the back of a horse.
Regards
Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
Very interesting points, as both depictions do seem to portray Amazons... who certainly knew their bow and sagaris. Both are continually shown in art (especially Greek vases) used by steppe women. On another thread we discussed the Sagaraskya culture, and a significant number of their women were buried with archery equipment. The rider on the Etruscan caldron cover also gives the appearance of an instinctive shooter, and she is shown in a position after the release of her arrow. [Although we always think of the Etruscans in Italy, at one time they lived in the Lavant.] mile:
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Re the instinctive shot - I'd agree the first depiction shows that too; but from the angle of the first picture I was unsure whether the archer was drawing an arrow from the quiver or loosing so didn't include it initially.
Having said that, where her hand is after the release, her quiver is also in the right place!
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Ah, yes. I didn't notice that. A minimum of hand movement and time expended. We forget that steppe archers were not much different than "machine-gunners." If you had a couple hundred archers snapping-off Parthian shots, the sky would be almost as black as Leonidas'. Lajos Kassi can fire 12 arrows in 15 seconds and continuously hit thrown targets similar to frizbees. :woot:
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
This quiver layout from the painting and the Greek art is too early for Arsacid era, and the layout is western Scythian anyhow, not eastern / Central Asian which was a little different. I have a feeling many of the depictions of "backwards" gorytoi are either held that way at leisure and not in battle, or depictions of the gorytoi horizontally across the back at the level of the lumbar spine, like with Plains Indians quivers, which actually gives a really nice and easy draw.
I think one of the above illustrations shows an Amazon using the over-the-right-shoulder method you just mentioned. That's how I carry my quiver and it works very well.
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Quote:This quiver layout from the painting and the Greek art is too early for Arsacid era...
Yeah. I should've said "in the Achaemenid period" instead of "in early times." It's just I don't know exactly when the more westerly archers started changing things.
Dan D'Silva
Far beyond the rising sun
I ride the winds of fate
Prepared to go where my heart belongs,
Back to the past again.
-- Gamma Ray
Well, I'm tough, rough, ready and I'm able
To pick myself up from under this table...
-- Thin Lizzy