Representations of barbarians form 5th century

[Atawulf]

Returnin to main theme... What source can i find about germanic patterns in 5th century? I've seen all germanic reenactor wearing stripes of different colour on the edges of his tunics, but... It is historical???

[Flavivs Aetivs]

It is.

[AMELIANVS]

I see no reason why this would not be historical as well :wink:

[XorX]

the Blucina Find and its spatha are typical LATE 5th century, not early... it`s the gold-hilt-style that appears in the grave of Childerich in Tournai which is dated 482 AD.
piece no. 20 is a pair of tweezers

[Atawulf]

It is.

Ok, so... Can someone tell me where is the historical source or de archeological site which I can see it?

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Well that explains that.

Just because it's a Gold Hilt with Cloisonne doesn't mean it's dated to late 5th. There are plenty of Gold Hilts that are early 5th and the Pouan, which is the first blade with Cloisonne, AFAIK is dated to roughly 450.

As for the evidence of the use of Orbiculi, Clavii, Segmentae, etc. on Barbarian Tunics, there have been a few examples found from bog finds in Denmark and the recent one found in a glacier that have Clavii, Orbiculi, etc.

And of course there are artistic depictions like the Vandal Mosaics, etc.

[XorX]

Just because it's a Gold Hilt with Cloisonne doesn't mean it's dated to late 5th. There are plenty of Gold Hilts that are early 5th and the Pouan, which is the first blade with Cloisonne, AFAIK is dated to roughly 450.

the special shape of this type of the gold hilt itself (not the other parts of the handle) makes this a closed group of spathae which all date in a frame from about 460-540. the hilt is hexagonal and divided in 4 or 5 sections. this is what makes them different from the earlier eastern types

[Atawulf]

Well that explains that.

Just because it's a Gold Hilt with Cloisonne doesn't mean it's dated to late 5th. There are plenty of Gold Hilts that are early 5th and the Pouan, which is the first blade with Cloisonne, AFAIK is dated to roughly 450.

As for the evidence of the use of Orbiculi, Clavii, Segmentae, etc. on Barbarian Tunics, there have been a few examples found from bog finds in Denmark and the recent one found in a glacier that have Clavii, Orbiculi, etc.

And of course there are artistic depictions like the Vandal Mosaics, etc.

I ask for this cause in my group we want to make visigoth tunics but... There wasn't evidence about how were it, at least in V century. I supose they worn roman tunics, especially the high class, but it I think they worn germanic tunics too, especially at the begining of his entry to the empire. Visigoths have their own fibulas, their own swords, their own belts, their own religion (Arrianism) so, i can belive they have their own tunic patterns too. The problem is that I want to be rigourous with this things and there aren't too much historical sources about it.
So if i make a tunic with different colour stripes and embroidered on the sleeves edges, do you think it would be accurate???
And sorry for my insistence but it's important for my and my group. :oops:

[Thomas V.]

As for the evidence of the use of Orbiculi, Clavii, Segmentae, etc. on Barbarian Tunics, there have been a few examples found from bog finds in Denmark and the recent one found in a glacier that have Clavii, Orbiculi, etc.

What sources is your statement based on?

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Yeah you'd be fine doing it. I always imagined the Aquitanian Goths wearing Orange but that's just the Rome: Total War in me

This Visigothic Column Capital clearly shows stripes on the edge of his sleeves:



This one appears to show an Armilla as well (wrist bracelet torque thing)

[Thomas V.]

Yeah you'd be fine doing it. I always imagined the Aquitanian Goths wearing Orange but that's just the Rome: Total War in me

This Visigothic Column Capital clearly shows stripes on the edge of his sleeves:



This one appears to show an Armilla as well (wrist bracelet torque thing)

According to the web page the pictures are from, the capitals stem from the late seventh century and therefore not from the fifth.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

As for the evidence of the use of Orbiculi, Clavii, Segmentae, etc. on Barbarian Tunics, there have been a few examples found from bog finds in Denmark and the recent one found in a glacier that have Clavii, Orbiculi, etc.

What sources is your statement based on?

Here's a few Tunics, but I don't see color variation (except in the Thorsberg which has a different colored edge on the sleeves and the Obenaltendorf man has visible clavii on one of his sleeves)

Bernuthsfeld Man, 680 AD-780 or something.


Obenaltendorf Man, 380 AD


Thorsberg Tunic, 4th Century




Thorsberg Trousers, 5th or 6th Century

[Flavivs Aetivs]

According to the web page the pictures are from, the capitals stem from the late seventh century and therefore not from the fifth.

I know they're 7th century, I'm just saying it's clear from them the Visigoths did have decoration i.e. Clavii on the edges of their sleeves.

[Thomas V.]

Bernuthsfeld tunic

No clavi, no orbiculi, no segmenta.

Obenaltendorf tunic (wich is sleevess, btw)

No orbiculi, no segmenta, clavi with lots of goodwill only.

Thorsberg tunic

No clavi, no orbiculi, no segmenta.

Thorsberg trousers

Not even a tunic.

[Atawulf]

Yeah you'd be fine doing it. I always imagined the Aquitanian Goths wearing Orange but that's just the Rome: Total War in me

This Visigothic Column Capital clearly shows stripes on the edge of his sleeves:



This one appears to show an Armilla as well (wrist bracelet torque thing)

According to the web page the pictures are from, the capitals stem from the late seventh century and therefore not from the fifth.

This tunic is known as Armilausa and is the only non roman tunic in the visigoth period in Spain. It had a break in the front (I can't see the edges in different colour Flavius, sorry ). The problem with this representations is the datation. These chapiters are from VI and VII century, and in this period visigoths copied the byzantine fashion. My interest is about V century.

This a representation of high middle ages clothing but from X century. The number 3 is the armilausa.