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Centurion Position in Battle
#27
Quote:That to me is the big question, just what was his job in battle? Was it be an inspiration at the front with little knowledge or control over what the rest of the century was doing or was it to command the century. If it was to command the century, order formation changes, receive and relay orders from the Legate or Tribunes, keep it line with other centuries etc he can't have been in the front rank where his full attention would have been on the man in front trying to kill him.

What other commanding and controlling did a centurion need to do once the century was actively fighting? I don't mean while waiting, or during the approach march. I mean during the actual hand to hand portion of the fight. Immediately before the massed pila volley and then into the charge. Once actually committed to the fight, not in a follow on battle line or while waiting, what orders mid-fight would a centurion need to get from a tribune or legate, in person, that couldn't be relayed through a musical instrument? Would a previous order need be changed, while a century is actually fighting it out with another unit, in contact? What formation change could occur if a unit is actively engaged in battle, even if the centurion was aware of the necessity for it? How realistic would it to expect a unit in contact to wheel about or perform some complex drill maneuver or something? In my opinion, once a unit is actually committed to the fight, the only real orders it can realistically follow are Advance or Retreat, either of which can be relayed through musical instruments, at least according to the few literary sources that describe actual battles in detail. However, some verbal orders, such as to spread out units, can be done from the immediate front, such as when Caesar grabbed a shield, shoved his way to the front of a unit in contact with the enemy that was bunched up, and ordered it to "Open the maniple" (Caesar, DBG, 2.25). A centurion leading from the front could have done the exact same though (but he was already probably dead or wounded).

Commanding a century was no doubt complicated, especially in non battle/garrison settings, where more mundane issues regularly needed to be dealt with. However, an individual century had no autonomy to advance the line, halt it, fall back as a unit, conduct line relief, order a change in tactics, etc., especially once it had been committed to battle. At that point, the centurion's role was limited to actively leading his men into the fight, ensuring the men followed him and the standard forward. The leadership of the battle line (of multiple centuries) fell on the tribunes and legates to relieve units individually or by cohort, issue fragmentary orders, etc. Nearly all orders would have been standardized enough that they would have corresponded to a musical signal, which the unit's cornicen would hear and relay to the unit itself. Centurions would not be needed to coordinate anything. Once committed into battle, I think their role was leadership by example.
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Messages In This Thread
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-23-2014, 05:27 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mithras - 06-23-2014, 07:45 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-23-2014, 08:14 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-23-2014, 08:59 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-23-2014, 09:54 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-23-2014, 10:42 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-24-2014, 12:48 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-24-2014, 08:58 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-24-2014, 04:24 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-24-2014, 07:04 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-24-2014, 08:11 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-25-2014, 08:15 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-25-2014, 08:51 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-25-2014, 09:57 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 09:58 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 10:06 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 10:47 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-25-2014, 11:16 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 03:36 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 03:50 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-25-2014, 04:11 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 04:25 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-25-2014, 05:33 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-25-2014, 10:02 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-25-2014, 10:54 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-25-2014, 11:09 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-26-2014, 08:31 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-26-2014, 09:31 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-26-2014, 09:35 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-26-2014, 09:49 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-26-2014, 11:07 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-26-2014, 11:13 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-26-2014, 11:26 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 06-26-2014, 12:50 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-26-2014, 01:30 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-26-2014, 01:54 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-26-2014, 04:29 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 06-26-2014, 06:40 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-27-2014, 04:07 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-27-2014, 04:12 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-27-2014, 04:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-27-2014, 05:03 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 06-27-2014, 08:39 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-27-2014, 09:24 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-27-2014, 09:47 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-28-2014, 10:40 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 06-28-2014, 11:34 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 02:52 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 06-28-2014, 03:15 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 03:49 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 04:06 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-28-2014, 05:23 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-28-2014, 05:43 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-28-2014, 10:23 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-29-2014, 11:29 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-29-2014, 04:07 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-29-2014, 05:56 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-29-2014, 06:00 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by antiochus - 06-30-2014, 04:42 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-30-2014, 10:27 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 06-30-2014, 10:40 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 06-30-2014, 11:34 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by antiochus - 06-30-2014, 01:09 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-30-2014, 03:14 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 06-30-2014, 04:00 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 06-30-2014, 04:08 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-30-2014, 05:48 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 06-30-2014, 06:27 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 06-30-2014, 08:39 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-01-2014, 11:10 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-01-2014, 02:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-01-2014, 04:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 05:02 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 05:04 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-01-2014, 08:40 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 09:10 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-01-2014, 10:41 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-01-2014, 11:16 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-02-2014, 06:53 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-02-2014, 09:25 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Robert Vermaat - 07-02-2014, 12:00 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-02-2014, 01:18 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-02-2014, 02:30 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-02-2014, 08:37 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-02-2014, 08:50 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-02-2014, 08:51 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-02-2014, 09:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-03-2014, 08:53 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-03-2014, 11:43 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-03-2014, 12:16 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-03-2014, 08:48 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-03-2014, 09:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-03-2014, 09:40 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Macedon - 07-03-2014, 10:06 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-04-2014, 09:00 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-04-2014, 12:41 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Robert Vermaat - 07-04-2014, 01:42 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-04-2014, 02:23 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 02:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-04-2014, 02:45 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-04-2014, 03:30 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-04-2014, 03:34 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-04-2014, 03:48 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-04-2014, 04:05 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 05:51 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 07-04-2014, 06:37 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 08:55 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-04-2014, 09:03 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-04-2014, 09:26 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 09:35 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-04-2014, 09:59 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-04-2014, 10:08 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by thiswayup - 07-04-2014, 11:56 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-05-2014, 12:52 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-05-2014, 01:05 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-05-2014, 04:39 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by PhilusEstilius - 07-05-2014, 08:58 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-05-2014, 10:52 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-05-2014, 02:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-06-2014, 06:52 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-06-2014, 07:58 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Renatus - 07-06-2014, 08:09 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-06-2014, 08:12 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-06-2014, 08:18 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-06-2014, 08:32 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 07-06-2014, 09:19 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-06-2014, 10:11 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-06-2014, 11:13 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Bryan - 07-07-2014, 12:06 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-07-2014, 11:15 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-07-2014, 12:13 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-07-2014, 08:19 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-07-2014, 08:47 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-07-2014, 10:05 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by thomas aagaard - 07-08-2014, 01:06 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Frank - 07-08-2014, 09:39 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Tim NC - 07-08-2014, 11:08 AM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Nathan Ross - 07-08-2014, 12:56 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Mark Hygate - 07-08-2014, 02:37 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Robert Vermaat - 07-08-2014, 03:16 PM
Centurion Position in Battle - by Vindex - 07-08-2014, 07:31 PM

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