09-07-2004, 01:59 PM
Salvete,<br>
<br>
My $.02 on the subject:<br>
<br>
My biggest problem with women who "portray" men is the ones that are out to play "dress-up" rather than represent history. While I'll agree with Matt, that this is a hobby and we shouldn't bar anyone from participating, I'd hate to see a bunch of "chicks in chainmail" out on the battlefield who can barely stand up from the weight of their armor. Likewise, I don't want to see guys out there that can't "carry their own weight" as well.<br>
<br>
Secondly, in US History, the women who were able to pass as men in the ranks, like Deborah Sampson in the Rev War or Jenny Hodges in the Civil War were either young and never had children (like teen-agers), homely (to put it nicely...) or both. So middle-aged women who have had a couple of kids probably won't be able to pass as a guy, no matter how much they pad themselves up or tie their chests down. Wendy Ackerman, a CW reenactor, has done a lot of research about women who fought as men and the techniques they used. She also looks into the social history of gender and explains how someone that we would ping as female right off the batt, would look "male" back 150 years ago. Remember, until about 50 years ago or so, women routinely did not wear trousers or don "masculine" hairstyles. People 150+ years ago would not question the gender of a person dressed like a man, with a male hairstyle, and a decently male figure. So a lot of women that we would think look obviously female, were able to pass themselves off as men because of the social conventions of the time. I don't know how Romans would view this. Could a woman cut her hair short, dress in a toga or tunica, and pass for a man?<br>
<br>
So I've seen some women successfully portray men. One of the 1812 units is a sharp-shooter militia unit that is mainly composed of teen-agers, which is historically correct. There are some great young ladies in the group that blend right in with the boys. Give them a few years and this won't be the case but again, Deborah Sampson was like 16 when she joined the Continental Army and most other women I know who served as men were around that age as well. Jenny Hodges was in the "homely" category and she actually lived as a man after the war was over and wasn't found out until many years later when she broke her leg after getting run over by an early automobile. The doctors brought in some of her old army buddies to vouch that this was "Albert Cashier" that they served with so that she could keep her veteran's pension.<br>
<br>
My last gripe with women portraying men is that on one level, it demeans women's roles. I'm not a big feminist but I think that it's important to show women's roles, especially at reenactments since they are glossed over in the history books. If every woman who joins a unit opts to do a male impression, it sends a silent message that women's roles were boring and unimportant. On the flip side, I don't want to see an over-exaggeration of it either with camps being over-run with women and children like what has happened with some units. Now some units let women do dual roles which I think is great. You get to fill in your numbers on the field and let the public see the women's roles as well.<br>
<br>
I know some women who want to portray men because "they don't want to cook and sew" in camp. Perfectly fine, go research other roles that women had. (Some women are lazy and don't want to do this so it's just easier to dress up and go play with the boys.) They were merchants, nurses, the occasional doctor, farmers, carpenters, etc. When the men were off to war, who do you think picked up the slack? If all women did was cook and sew, things would have fallen apart back home really quickly.<br>
<br>
There are a ton of roles for women in Roman times from scholar to priestess to merchant. As mentioned before, women that weren't from Rome had many other roles as well. They too weren't limited to cooking, cleaning and sewing.<br>
<br>
So Lysadra, I'm not picking on you. I think you're going about doing a legionare impression the right way. You're interested in it, you've made some of the equipment and you're training to be able to "pull your own weight" so to speak. I think that's great and hope to see you out on the field some day!<br>
<br>
Well that's my $.02 on the subject.<br>
<br>
Deb <p></p><i></i>
<br>
My $.02 on the subject:<br>
<br>
My biggest problem with women who "portray" men is the ones that are out to play "dress-up" rather than represent history. While I'll agree with Matt, that this is a hobby and we shouldn't bar anyone from participating, I'd hate to see a bunch of "chicks in chainmail" out on the battlefield who can barely stand up from the weight of their armor. Likewise, I don't want to see guys out there that can't "carry their own weight" as well.<br>
<br>
Secondly, in US History, the women who were able to pass as men in the ranks, like Deborah Sampson in the Rev War or Jenny Hodges in the Civil War were either young and never had children (like teen-agers), homely (to put it nicely...) or both. So middle-aged women who have had a couple of kids probably won't be able to pass as a guy, no matter how much they pad themselves up or tie their chests down. Wendy Ackerman, a CW reenactor, has done a lot of research about women who fought as men and the techniques they used. She also looks into the social history of gender and explains how someone that we would ping as female right off the batt, would look "male" back 150 years ago. Remember, until about 50 years ago or so, women routinely did not wear trousers or don "masculine" hairstyles. People 150+ years ago would not question the gender of a person dressed like a man, with a male hairstyle, and a decently male figure. So a lot of women that we would think look obviously female, were able to pass themselves off as men because of the social conventions of the time. I don't know how Romans would view this. Could a woman cut her hair short, dress in a toga or tunica, and pass for a man?<br>
<br>
So I've seen some women successfully portray men. One of the 1812 units is a sharp-shooter militia unit that is mainly composed of teen-agers, which is historically correct. There are some great young ladies in the group that blend right in with the boys. Give them a few years and this won't be the case but again, Deborah Sampson was like 16 when she joined the Continental Army and most other women I know who served as men were around that age as well. Jenny Hodges was in the "homely" category and she actually lived as a man after the war was over and wasn't found out until many years later when she broke her leg after getting run over by an early automobile. The doctors brought in some of her old army buddies to vouch that this was "Albert Cashier" that they served with so that she could keep her veteran's pension.<br>
<br>
My last gripe with women portraying men is that on one level, it demeans women's roles. I'm not a big feminist but I think that it's important to show women's roles, especially at reenactments since they are glossed over in the history books. If every woman who joins a unit opts to do a male impression, it sends a silent message that women's roles were boring and unimportant. On the flip side, I don't want to see an over-exaggeration of it either with camps being over-run with women and children like what has happened with some units. Now some units let women do dual roles which I think is great. You get to fill in your numbers on the field and let the public see the women's roles as well.<br>
<br>
I know some women who want to portray men because "they don't want to cook and sew" in camp. Perfectly fine, go research other roles that women had. (Some women are lazy and don't want to do this so it's just easier to dress up and go play with the boys.) They were merchants, nurses, the occasional doctor, farmers, carpenters, etc. When the men were off to war, who do you think picked up the slack? If all women did was cook and sew, things would have fallen apart back home really quickly.<br>
<br>
There are a ton of roles for women in Roman times from scholar to priestess to merchant. As mentioned before, women that weren't from Rome had many other roles as well. They too weren't limited to cooking, cleaning and sewing.<br>
<br>
So Lysadra, I'm not picking on you. I think you're going about doing a legionare impression the right way. You're interested in it, you've made some of the equipment and you're training to be able to "pull your own weight" so to speak. I think that's great and hope to see you out on the field some day!<br>
<br>
Well that's my $.02 on the subject.<br>
<br>
Deb <p></p><i></i>
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Deb
Sulpicia Lepdinia
Legio XX
Deb
Sulpicia Lepdinia
Legio XX
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