Fantasy Armor fact check

[MagnusStultus]

I am wondering if this article is new mythology or true regarding the standard design of real female armor in fantasy

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/05/boob-pl...d-kill-you

Any insight would be welcome thank you.

[Scipio Second]

While fantasy armor, male or female, is fun to observe at renfairs, it is fantasy. Roman legionnaires were men. That is not to say Roman women never fought, no doubt there were desperate occasions. But not as part of an organized military to my knowledge. Celtic women are reputed to have fought as warriors. But one suspects this was the exception, not the rule. Of course, Boudica in Britain was a notable exception. Records of the Celts in Britain suggest that they wore little armor. Women were not generally accepted as warriors in the Middle Ages. Joan of Arc is an exception.

The art work you set out is truly fantasy. As actual armor, it is impractical for innumerable reasons. Still I would not object if I saw it live at a renfest. But then I'm not a purist as are some of my brethren.

Publius Quinctius Petrus Augustinus
(aka Pierre A. Kleff, Jr.)

[Flavivs Aetivs]

That's the steel plate armor from Skyrim. Looks better with mods.

I'm inclined to agree with the author, such shaped armor is not only impractical, it would be uncomfortable, and would probably increase fatalities like he suggests.

Fantasy games do it because the majority of the playerbase is male and men like breasts.

[Condottiero Magno]

Fantasy games do it because the majority of the playerbase is male and men like breasts.

Boys like breasts...

Real men appreciate the finer points of a well toned buttocks... :wink:

Prior to the Gothic style of armor, in the first half of the 15th Century there was a type of German breastplate with an horizontal ridge at the chest level.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Just a quick search of German armor shows several examples with enlarged chests, but I don't know enough about plate armor of the period to comment, other than that they obviously weren't made for women to wear.

I seriously doubt women being in combat roles in the modern military will last long. People scream about equality between men and women, but the reality is that men and women, psychologically, neurologically, and biologically, as well as physically, are very different and suited to different roles. Combat generally is not suited towards Women, it's just the direction natural selection has taken our species. Could that change? Yes. There are female bodybuilders who could probably tear a common soldier in half, but evolution has guided women towards the caretaker role as they give birth to and raise the child.

One of the best things about women in the military though, is that they're smaller, and therefore make better astronauts, tank operators, fighter pilots, and suitable for other jobs in tight spaces, on top of the fact they are more often than not better problem-solvers than men. However, women don't have as good spatial reasoning skills as men, which is something Videogames have helped improve in "closing the gender gap."

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on some of this, by the way. My specialty is in Physics and Chemistry, not gender studies (I shudder at the thought).

[Vindex]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on some of this, by the way. My specialty is in Physics and Chemistry, not gender studies (I shudder at the thought).

As a six foot tall officer in Her Majesty's Army I'll wait until we meet in person.

[Nathan Ross]

My specialty is... not gender studies

Really? You surprise me!... :whistle:

[Flavivs Aetivs]

As a six foot tall officer in Her Majesty's Army I'll wait until we meet in person.

I'm referring to the general population of women here, but you raise a point that bell-curve of height is changing.

But I'm still taller than you

[Vindex]

As a six foot tall officer in Her Majesty's Army I'll wait until we meet in person.

I'm referring to the general population of women here, but you raise a point that bell-curve of height is changing.

But I'm still taller than you

I think you have missed the point...

[66kbm]

Evan.....advice...don't mess with Moi.
I have nothing more to say.
Except........all this has made me giggle a tad.
Kevin

[MagnusStultus]

To add a follow up question; what made Lorica Musculata work despite the apparent design flaw expressed by the original article I was fact checking?

[Dan Howard]

Most musculatas were not as exaggerated as you see in a lot of modern reconstructions. Their protective capacity is basically the same as a flat cuirass. The shape might even act as fluting and slightly improve its protection.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I think you have missed the point...

I miss a lot of things.

[Thomas Aagaard]

I seriously doubt women being in combat roles in the modern military will last long.

Yes you are wrong.

The danish army have females fighting as infantry just as the males and that is not going to change.
Yes the average female is not fitted to be in the infantry... just like the average male is not.

The females i served with in a combat engineer unit(so they where walking in front of the infantry sweeping for IEDs or blowing holes in walled and generally doing a job just as hard, or harder than the infantry) are some of the best soldiers I served with.
(and just so we are clear, danes join the army because they want to be soldiers. despite lower than average pay and no benefits since we already got free healthcare and free college education)

Suggest you read this blog from a (male) danish officer who had females in his rifle platoon in Iraq and later Afghanistan.
http://sorensjogren.com/2012/the-problem...bat-units/
---

Now the armor.
Some females can wear ordinary plate armor if wearing properly made padding. And they don't need to be "flat" for this
It is in no way impossible to make proper plate armor for females... just need to be made to the person. Just like proper armor for males.

But since most "munition" armour you can buy for reenactment or larp is made for men, females do more often have to get armor made specifically for them.

[Longovicium]

There is an old idea that women have fought in war but only in disguise and as individuals.

At the birth of the modern British Army during the English Civil War, a Royalist regiment full of Protestants defended a Royalist House successfully and was even allowed to march out with all its colours intact and undefeated once the King had surrendered to Cromwell. We have a surviving muster roll in an old parish church for the regiment and it comprises of three pay grades: First Sex rate, Second Sex rate, and Third Sex rate. First rate were men serving in the regiment; Second Sex were cooks and sutlers and servants, all women, and Third rate were 'Posemen': women dressed as men and serving as infantry sharpshooters. Posemen used a lighter musket and successfully fought off Parliamentarian assaults on the walls. The parish muster and payroll tells us that over half the regiment were paid at Second and Third sex rate with the latter making up almost a third in themselves.

This means that the regiment - one of the most successful Royalist regiments in the War - was comprised mostly of women.

They dressed as men, fought equally as men, and brought a regimental esprit de corps equal if not better than any other regiment on the field of battle.