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11-20-2004, 02:36 PM

I used casein paint for my gladius scabbard. But the result is questionable. The paint doesn't flow enough and there are stripes visible so you can't see the leather structure anymore. 
Am I doing something wrong here or is this normal. 
 
Greets 
 
Jurgen/Quintilianus

11-20-2004, 08:23 PM

Why are you painting a scabbard? 
 
Cicero [url=http://www.freewebs.com/davekufner" target="top]www.freewebs.com/davekufner[/url]

**richsc** · 11-20-2004, 10:01 PM

Casein paint can be pretty odd. I've used both Milk Paint company pigmented paint and mixed their base with Sinopia pigments, and painted both linen and leather. It gives uneven looks to the pigment, no where near as consistent as a plastic paint (latex). The color you use does seem to make a difference. Red can be pretty even, but yellow not. You have to mix the stuff up all the time. What consistency are you using? More like cream seems to work best for me. Legio XX 
Caput dolet, pedes fetent, Iesum non amo

11-22-2004, 09:24 AM

Dave, since you would not paint a scabbard, which method would you use to color the leather? At the makeover of a Deepeeka gladius on www.florentius.com paint is used to color the scabbard. I have the feeling I am missing something here. 
 
Jurgen/Quintilianus

**richsc** · 11-22-2004, 10:53 AM

You can always dye the leather. Matt Amt's site has some tips on that and it does look good, but you need to practice it before hand on scrap! It too streaks. Legio XX 
Caupona Asellinae

11-22-2004, 12:46 PM

Rich, I have looked again on the twentieth site but I can't find tips on how to go about it. Which kind of product do I need to dye the leather with? On what you say, I imagine you have to apply it like paint with a brush? 
 
Your help is really appreciated here! 
 
Jurgen/Quintilianus

11-22-2004, 07:06 PM

Well we must ask what is paint and what is stain. 
 
Paint is basically Glue+Water+Pigment 
Stain is basically Water+Pigment 
 
Do you want to reproduce ancient pigments and stain leather or just stain the leather to your liking? 
 
Effort vs convienence kind of thing. 
 
Dave/Cicero 
 
You could get dry pigment from an arts/crafts store and add water and voila of just buy a historical type stain. [url=http://www.freewebs.com/davekufner" target="top]www.freewebs.com/davekufner[/url]Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=davekufner>Dave Kufner</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Segontium/" BORDER=0> at: 11/22/04 8:08 pm

DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS · 11-22-2004, 08:33 PM

Perhaps, but they painted the scutum, so I'm not too worried about painting my scabbard. Guess it might make me a big ole ass farb, but I don't intend to rebuild the whole scabbard. Anyway, it's a Deepeeka scabbard, if you want great, get a Len Morgan... 
DMV DECIMUS MERCATIUS VARIANUS 
 
LEGIO IX HISPANA 
NorCal Chapter 
 
Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze 
 
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt.

11-23-2004, 08:32 AM

At this point I just want it to look like the real thing. What ever that was. I imagine if the Romans liked the attractiveness of the leather, they would have dyed it. So I would go for that (the painted version I made was awful).But in this case I would not worry about the modus operandi as long as the result is the same. So is there a product out there to do this? 
 
Greets, 
 
Jurgen/Quintilianus

**richsc** · 11-24-2004, 01:52 AM

We have used both Fiebing's and Angelus' leather dyes. The leather has to be spotless or all the defects show right through, as it is of course transparent. Fiebing's seems to be the better quality dye. Legio XX 
Caput dolet, pedes fetent, Iesum non amo

11-24-2004, 09:29 AM

Thanks Rich. 
 
Jurgen/Quintilianus

11-24-2004, 03:12 PM

Ave Decimus, 
 
I'm just thinking that the leather covering for your shield would of a smoother texture than the scabbard so it would paint up better. 
 
Vale, 
Cicero [url=http://www.freewebs.com/davekufner" target="top]www.freewebs.com/davekufner[/url]

12-07-2004, 01:00 AM

In answer to why paint the scabbard, BTW, the answer is to lose the black color the Deepeeka ones come in. Though I don't have my resources in front of me, the real ones seemed to favor colors of red (again, the color of war), per paint remnants found on some frescos. We do know the Romans seemed to generally avoid black as an ill-omen (see Sumner). But since you cannot dye or stain leather that's already black, your left with the option of painting it. And as Decimus Mercatius points out, we know they certainly painted the leather-faced scuta, so there shouldn't be a plausibility issue. 
 
My only contibuting thoughts on the technique itself would be: 
 
a) all of the metal fittings must be removed first, except the large top portion. This is fairly easy to do, since they are held on with regular glue and some easy-to-pry-up tiny nails. 
 
b) paint from top to bottom in long, smooth strokes, and apply two coats. Wait for the first coat to dry before applying the second. Do both front and back. 
 
c) While the paint is drying, stand the scabbard upright, with the [remaining] metal section towards the floor. 
 
d) When both coats are entirely dry, go over it with a coat of clear laquer (I use semi-gloss, the flat looks REALLY flat!), either sprayed or brushed. Not period, but will greatly increase the lifespan of your paintjob. 
 
e) Check your fittings for burrs on the inside surfaces, especially the triangular-shaped chape. File where necessary. Replacing fittings with burrs will rip gashes into you lovely paintjob (trust me)! 
 
f) Carefully replace the fittings, or not. You may decide to look at some designs that were actually dug-up (see Bishop and Coulston) and modify yours as desired. This will personalize your sword, and help lose the "hey, I just got this in the mail from Deepeeka" look. 
 
g) IF you know beforehand that you want to modity your fittings, or simply leave some off (I left off the twisty snakey thing that looks like it's hewn out of boiler plate thickness brass), then use some Elmers glue to pug up those particular holes BEFORE painting. Once you paint over them, it'll be like they were never there. 
 
Hope this helps, 
Vale! 
 
Darius

12-07-2004, 06:38 PM

Oh great now I have to paint my black scabbard. 
 
Dave [url=http://www.freewebs.com/davekufner" target="top]www.freewebs.com/davekufner[/url]

12-07-2004, 10:28 PM

Greetings, 
I just finished upgrading a Deepeka Pompeii and scabbard as a loaner/auxillia piece. Fitting the blade to the scabbard required a complete teardown. To replace the black leather, I cut up an old file/folio folder that I've had since Basic Training at Ft. Knox 20 yrs ago. The thin leather is a beautiful Ox-Blood color with a fine grain and nicely mottled. I had to use three separate pieces. One around the main body with the seam at the back, and one each on the front and back of the triangular bottom end. I used carpenters glue to attach it and hid the seams under the bands and edges. It looks so nice that I'm planning to re-cover my good one as well. That is of course after I finish the Mainz that my buddy handed me to do when he saw it. He's got an old easy chair and ottoman that have some nice green leather on them....

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