China vs Rome for control of Silk Road new movie

[XorX]

At least they did a better job with Adrian Brody's armor. If you squint really hard you can pretend that it was inspired by samnite armor.

no.

and: hihihihihi, what a crap :-)

[Gregg]

"Uh...hello?"
- The Parthian Empire.

[john m roberts]

I'm wondering about why China would fight anyone over "control" of the Silk Road. Silk was produced in China. It was sold to merchants who would take it along the Silk Road and eventually some of it ended up in the Roman Empire. Once sold, it was of no interest to China who had it or what they sold it for, or to whom. Why should they care who "controlled" the silk Road? As long as they did not invade China to get the silk at its source, it was a matter of no interest to the Chinese.

[Eleatic Guest]

Interesting point. Well, the Chinese could get end consumer prices from the Romans and other Western peoples by controlling overland silk routes. Then again, control of land routes was (still is) ridiculously more costly than of sea routes.

Economically, it would have made more sense to develop instead sea trade if China had possessed a grand master plan of economic dominance in Eurasia. But Han China had no blue-water navy and no maritime concept worth the name.

[Michael Kerr]

john m roberts wrote:

I'm wondering about why China would fight anyone over "control" of the Silk Road. Silk was produced in China. It was sold to merchants who would take it along the Silk Road and eventually some of it ended up in the Roman Empire. Once sold, it was of no interest to China who had it or what they sold it for, or to whom. Why should they care who "controlled" the silk Road? As long as they did not invade China to get the silk at its source, it was a matter of no interest to the Chinese.

While silk was probably the main source of income for the traders involved, there were numerous other goods traded on the silk routes of Central Asia & trade was a 2 way series of routes for the benefit of many. China itself desired many products for its military & domestic needs such as horses, exotic animals, ivory, salt, copper, tin, gold, gems, glass, furs, dates, fruits, vegetables such as string beans, carrots, cucumbers, figs, spices, frankincense, myrrh, carpets & various woollen products so it would have been in her interest to at least maintain the free flow of goods, either through diplomacy, bribery & if necessary military intervention when required. Her interest was to control the various nomadic tribes of Central Asia to help keep her merchants & traders happy & promote wealth & taxation to maintain her courts.

Other products besides silks exported by China were jade, ceramics, porcelains, medicines, iron & lacquer which was very popular among the various steppe groups for their leather & horse gear & to a smaller extent weapons & armour. Much later paper was also traded as there was a lot of demand from Europe. But China gave silk as well as Chinese brides, who were treated as status symbols amongst steppe leaders, to the steppe tribes like the Xiong-nu, Yuezhi & Wusun in return for livestock, horses, goods, peace & security on the northern & north-western borders & the leaders of these tribes would in turn barter the silk with a western neighbour for products like furs & luxury goods that they desired to maintain loyalty of their subjects & so the silk would travel westward & other products travelled eastward. I dont think the Chinese realised till the end of the Xiong-nu confederacy much later on how desirable silk was to the west & I don't think they ever dealt directly with the Romans, lots of middlemen & traders, although they jealously protected their silk production.

Control of Central Asian routes & oases would have been crucial to keep the trade flowing both ways so the Chinese would have been very keen to keep the various routes open as they had to keep the product moving. They were involved in a war with Ferghana for the “Heavenly Horses" although I suspect the war was fought to ensure loyalty from the Ferghana leadership to maintain trade routes stayed open rather than the acquiring of a few dozen horses for the Han emperor & in the days of the Han I don't think long distance sea trade would be as viable as the ships would have to skirt SE Asia & India to reach western markets unlike much later on with the Muslims, Portuguese, Spanish & Dutch who could bypass ports & duties for longer distances (mainly coastal trade between local ports in those days before caravels).

The Seluecids & the Parthians after them allocated a lot of their military resources to maintenance of their eastern borders & the Chinese did likewise on their western borders. Most of the time military resources & goods were to appease the troublesome nomadic tribes like the Saka, Xiong-nu & other groups to keep the routes clear.

I seriously doubt that Rome would have been militarily capable of controlling these routes as they would have had to wipe out the Parthians or Sassanids to do this. Sea trade would have been her best alternative to bypass her eastern enemies but she would have faced same problems as the Chinese in that long distance sea travel was not feasible so lots of port stops & lots of duties to be paid for port entry making sea trade a lot more expensive than land travel:?

Would be an interesting what if movie though & I am curious to see how Chinese depict Roman armour & weapons. I have noticed in a lot of Chinese movies that the actors always ride their horses with stirrups even in movies set in much earlier times so the purists wont like that.

Regards
Michael Kerr

[Eleatic Guest]

Slight correction: Chinese paper was never directly traded to medieval Europe. Rather, paper production gradually moved westward with the first paper mills appearing in Samarkand in the 8th century AD, then later at Baghdad and Cairo. Paper production entered Europe in the 11th and 12th century in Spain and Italy. Chinese also used a different barch than Arabs and Europeans each, and never mechanized their paper production. Europeans were also unique in using rags for paper IIRC.

Thinking of it, the entire scenario of both powers fighting over control of the silk road suffers from flawed logic. Silk is a luxury item, not a vital product. If Rome really came to the conclusion it was dependent on silk, the senate would have simply banned it from use.

This would not have been difficult: Silk use was exclusive to the upper classes, which were few and socially visible, and silk itself, as an item of social distinction, 'works' almost per definitionem only by being extremely socially visible. Thus, effective prohibition of its use would have been quite easy for the state (we happen to know that Aurelian prohibited its wife to use silk).

With demand broken down, the Chinese would have no incentive to expand westwards, and the Romans would have felt no need to counter the threat. Economic warfare would have decided the matter.

[Walhaz]

I too am interested in seeing this movie: the names I recognize are completely incongruent with one another, the idea is far-fetched enough to be both campy and charming, and the amount that is apparently being spent means it will look great (although appallingly inaccurate, based on the photos so far).

I do think it is sort of funny that the premise of the film seems to ignore the fact that large, powerful empires existed between Rome and Han China, empires that certainly would not have looked fondly on anyone coming in to take over their territory or upset any bargains or agreements with the powerful tribes along the route.

That being said, I'm pretty sure this movie is either directly or indirectly a commentary on current affairs. The Silk Road, or variations of it, is still very much in existence, and is a route for the natural resource potential of Central Asia. China has shown itself to be quite interested in gaining mineral interests in several locations in Central Asia, and is being challenged by Pakistan, Russia, Iran, and India, to name a few.

[A_Volpe]

Ugh.

I suppose I'm fine with Epic Historical Fantasy movies.
….As long as they make the distinction that it IS just a fantasy story, not some "based on a true story" or "based on a made-up story told 'round the campfire one night but I totally believe the guy so it must be real" BS.

It looks like Jackie Chan's helmet is made out of stone or ceramic. Even as fantasy armor, doesn't seem that practical. Whatever.
Someone spent too much time looking at Warhammer 40k models and World of Warcraft armor.

It'll be interesting/a laugh to see when all this 1 inch thick plastic cast Roman armor shows up on the vendor websites noted as "Fully authentic" next to Trooper helmets.

2 steps forwards, 50 backwards.

[Michael Kerr]

Apparently the film's director Daniel Lee designed the armour. Although in Chinese this link to a short showing the props in the movie including a giant Roman pulley system controlling the opening & closing of “The Wild Geese Gate".

http://www.moviexclusive.com/detail.php?...blade_3238

I think that in the movie the golden armour was placed in a “Western Regions" or Central Asian temple after Jackie Chan's fictional general character used it. I think this movie is Action/Fantasy & there seems no hint of Chinese period, probably Han but if is supposedly fantasy but with the addition of American actors (Mel Gibson was originally cast in one of the roles but he pulled out) you have to wonder how they will market it to western audiences (fantasy or historical) Seeing the 2 armies never met as well as the fact the Romans would be pushing it to transport an army to Central Asia bypassing the Parthians I suppose it would be fantasy but with Hollywood involved who knows. I would be happier if the fictional Romans were survivors of Crassus disastrous defeat at Carrhae as that would at least explain how an armed Roman force ended up on the eastern fringes of the Parthian empire as a possible mercenary force as Late Sinologist Homer Dubs once proposed many years ago. Still fantasy but feasible.
Regards
Michael Kerr

[Scipio Second]

Gentleman,

The film is and was intended to be fantasy. Am I to understand that because the Hobbit is fantasy we should not watch and enjoy it? Come on....

Petrus Augustinus
(Pierre Kleff)

[Alanus]

This film's director--Daniel Lee-- is noted for taking a historical premise and turning it into a fantasy piece. The perfect example is his Three Kingdoms, Resurrection of the Dragon, where the Good Guys wear WW1 British helmets and the Bad guys have WWII German helmets. It's all a metaphor with director Lee. If you want more accurate weapons and armor from the Three Kingdoms period, then you can watch Red Cliff.

But frankly, there's nothing wrong with Lee's work, just as there was nothing wrong with John Milius' Conan the Barbarian. It's a Classic with a capital C. My DVD copy was autographed by Ben Davidson ("Rexor) and I watch it a couple of times a year. If you require a Chinese historical movie to be accurate, then check out The Last Supper, the story of Gaozu the first emperor of the Han Dynasty.

Meanwhile, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape and make snide comments about a Chinese fantasy film. Most likely when it comes out in DVD I'll buy it. Why? Because the directing and lighting in Chinese films surpasses Hollywood. The Chinese have a better imagination; and when they do an ancient epic, they use real cavalry. True, the riders are all from the PLA, and yes, they (just like Hollywood extras) use stirrups because stirrups are safer than riding without them.

To all the detractors of a Movie Yet To Be Viewed, I hope you loosen your belt, buy some popcorn, and have a little Fun. If this film can equal Painted Skin, Resurrection (a fantasy also set in the Han Dynasty period), then it should be a hoot.

[Justin I]

"If you listen very carefully.....you will hear the gods laughing!"

Graham.

Damn it, Graham, you're killing me! :lol:

[Michael Kerr]

Having watched Dragon Blade last night, I can safely say it is not one for the purists but if you like Chinese Fantasy/History films then you won't be disappointed. A lot of historical inaccuracies with dates and armour and considering it was made for Chinese audiences that is to be expected. The movie is supposed to be based around 35 BC in Central Asia so throw away the history book. Some good scenes in the movie with the Roman engineers helping the locals rebuild their wall and a good practice duel where a Roman soldier shows one of the Chinese swordsmen how useful the scutum is as an offensive weapon in experienced hands. Jackie Chan plays a Hun or maybe he is supposed to be a Xiong-nu orphan, who along with his small group of followers is supposed to keep the peace among the 36 nations which straddle the Silk Road, having been set up for fraud by the local governor he and his men are exiled to the western borders of the Han empire. John Cusack plays the Roman general Lucius who has fled east from Parthia with the remnant of a Roman Legion to save their young prince who was blinded and nearly assassinated by his older brother, the cruel and vicious Tiberius played by Adrian Brophy who heads a legion in pursuit. There was one moving scene where the Roman soldiers joined their young prince in a song reminding them of their homeland. But like I said if you are a stickler for historical accuracy as the Romans use crossbows in this one, then this movie is probably not for you. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZnh7vqKx7w

Regards
Michael Kerr

[emilio]

The language of the song is Latin :

"...CARA PATRIA, NUNC ET SEMPER POTENS IN GLORIA..."

It' amazing !


arrivederci,
Emilio

[Marcus F.]

At least they did a better job with Adrian Brody's armor. If you squint really hard you can pretend that it was inspired by samnite armor.

He will also play Charles V in movie named "Emperor" btw.

[attachment=12413]2099056_.jpg[/attachment]