Hello, everyone!
I wish I found this thread earlier.
Almost two years ago, I decided to write and draw a graphic novel: Announcement on my blog, explaining what it's about.
(note that I used some incorrect terms at the time, such as "nomadic" etc. For one, English is my second language, but also I just knew a lot less back then.)
Since then I spent most of my free time researching for this purpose. The story and focus of the novel changed a few times, as I learnt more and more and started to put the puzzle pieces together.
(there are a few more blog posts about the comic, but nothing that useful for the discussion here)
So, imagine my surprise, when during a routine google search, I found this thread. And every single page either mirrored something I pieced together, or added something new and interesting above the overlapping material I had.
Now, I focus more on the Kushans, China and everything inbetween in the 2nd century CE. What came before is only important for context as well as for my hypotheses on religion. The actual Alans don't figure in the story at all. I also focus a lot on my own speculations on religion and spiritual cultures of these people, mostly based on the work of Esther Jacobson-Tepfer and a few others.
Today has been quite the ride, really. I added about two pages to my already existing 28 pages of (horribly messy and unsorted) notes.
Alanus, I think you've got something here. I don't agree with everything, you speculate a LOT and do exactly what scholars mostly refuse to do - associate historical cultures with material cultures, neatly wrapping them in a big basket with a Yuezhi label.
I'd be also wary of drawing too many conclusions from the customs and culture of currently living populations, or from associating cultures based on superficial similarities in material culture. (which may be a result of practical coincidence, minor cultural exchange etc.)
I mean, for my purposes, this stuff is totally fine - I'm writing fiction. ;
I have a folder full of material showing similarities between scytho-siberian, Mycenean/Minoan, BMAC and many other religious cultures. (to me it's about filling in context, possibly revealing some shared (possibly later supressed) underlying root beliefs, motifs and ideas, I'm not trying to reveal a massive all encompassing ur-culture)
Without having my source at hand (typing this quite unprepared), I'd echo the comments that the climate of Central Asia changed a lot, so drawing conclusions from looking at it now won't be that helpful. I hope to find it again, but I distinctly remember one source mentioning a fortress changing hands between the Han and Xiongnu several times, during radical climate changes, with rivers drying up completely at some point. (maybe it was near a "dragon city"? I'm sure I have it noted down somewhere)
Also, there are underground water canals irrigating the Tarim oases and their crops (all the grapes and water melons) with melting ice water from the Tian Shan. The "karez" were supposedly built cca 206 BCE - 24 CE.
One thing I'm not sure of after reading the thread is your opinion on the Yuezhi language(s) and the related classification of their culture. (At some point you mentioned you're starting to believe they spoke proto-Tocharian, later you dismissed it...)
Related to this - how you see the oasis states fitting into your big picture and if you agree with there being remnants of much earlier BMAC culture surviving in this area.
Hah, perhaps I can actually contribute something! (even if it's from the 1st page
)
Katheryn Lindeluff explains the Kargaly diadem as a Chinese influence. (depicting Immortals riding dragons into heaven, what you thought to be a cape being wings of the Immortal)
https://www.academia.edu/9338802/Immorta...aly_diadem
I wish I found this thread earlier.
Almost two years ago, I decided to write and draw a graphic novel: Announcement on my blog, explaining what it's about.
(note that I used some incorrect terms at the time, such as "nomadic" etc. For one, English is my second language, but also I just knew a lot less back then.)
Since then I spent most of my free time researching for this purpose. The story and focus of the novel changed a few times, as I learnt more and more and started to put the puzzle pieces together.
(there are a few more blog posts about the comic, but nothing that useful for the discussion here)
So, imagine my surprise, when during a routine google search, I found this thread. And every single page either mirrored something I pieced together, or added something new and interesting above the overlapping material I had.
Now, I focus more on the Kushans, China and everything inbetween in the 2nd century CE. What came before is only important for context as well as for my hypotheses on religion. The actual Alans don't figure in the story at all. I also focus a lot on my own speculations on religion and spiritual cultures of these people, mostly based on the work of Esther Jacobson-Tepfer and a few others.
Today has been quite the ride, really. I added about two pages to my already existing 28 pages of (horribly messy and unsorted) notes.
Alanus, I think you've got something here. I don't agree with everything, you speculate a LOT and do exactly what scholars mostly refuse to do - associate historical cultures with material cultures, neatly wrapping them in a big basket with a Yuezhi label.
I'd be also wary of drawing too many conclusions from the customs and culture of currently living populations, or from associating cultures based on superficial similarities in material culture. (which may be a result of practical coincidence, minor cultural exchange etc.)
I mean, for my purposes, this stuff is totally fine - I'm writing fiction. ;
I have a folder full of material showing similarities between scytho-siberian, Mycenean/Minoan, BMAC and many other religious cultures. (to me it's about filling in context, possibly revealing some shared (possibly later supressed) underlying root beliefs, motifs and ideas, I'm not trying to reveal a massive all encompassing ur-culture) Without having my source at hand (typing this quite unprepared), I'd echo the comments that the climate of Central Asia changed a lot, so drawing conclusions from looking at it now won't be that helpful. I hope to find it again, but I distinctly remember one source mentioning a fortress changing hands between the Han and Xiongnu several times, during radical climate changes, with rivers drying up completely at some point. (maybe it was near a "dragon city"? I'm sure I have it noted down somewhere)
Also, there are underground water canals irrigating the Tarim oases and their crops (all the grapes and water melons) with melting ice water from the Tian Shan. The "karez" were supposedly built cca 206 BCE - 24 CE.
One thing I'm not sure of after reading the thread is your opinion on the Yuezhi language(s) and the related classification of their culture. (At some point you mentioned you're starting to believe they spoke proto-Tocharian, later you dismissed it...)
Related to this - how you see the oasis states fitting into your big picture and if you agree with there being remnants of much earlier BMAC culture surviving in this area.
Quote:What we're not getting from a written record, we're finding through depictions on cultural artifacts. Below, is a detailed illustration of the gold "Wusun Diadem." Like the so-called "Siberian" buckle, it was crafted in the Ordos by Northern Chinese. Ordos art has a very distinctive style of interlocking branches and leaves. Here we see a woman riding a horned dragon. Notice what appears to be a short cloak extending from her shoulder. The significance of this piece puzzles me, so any thoughts are welcome.
This diadem was in the Kangali grave. Y.A. Zadneprovskiy notes, "A famous [Wusun] find is the Kangali burial of a female shaman discovered at an altitude of 2,300 m., near Almaty, containing jewelry, clothing, head-dress, and nearly 300 gold objects." Another find in Tenlik in eastern Zletysu contained the grave of a high-ranking warrior (no hint as to gender), whose clothing had been decorated with around 100 golden bosses.
The two Wusun graves show an amazing cultural link to the Saka kurgan grave of the Golden Woman. On her clothing, we find hundreds of gold bosses. Additionally, in view of the term "shaman," I'm adding a photo of the Golden Woman's gold rings and a close-up of her tall hat. (To anyone new to RAT, simply "click" on the picture and it will enlarge in a separate box. You can then "right-click" on the larger image and save it for your files.)
Hah, perhaps I can actually contribute something! (even if it's from the 1st page
)Katheryn Lindeluff explains the Kargaly diadem as a Chinese influence. (depicting Immortals riding dragons into heaven, what you thought to be a cape being wings of the Immortal)
https://www.academia.edu/9338802/Immorta...aly_diadem
Jan Pospisil - fantasy/historical/archaeology illustration
*-------------*
My Portfolio:
http://merlkir.deviantart.com
My Blog:
http://janpospisil.blogspot.com
*-------------*
My Portfolio:
http://merlkir.deviantart.com
My Blog:
http://janpospisil.blogspot.com
