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02-15-2005, 08:28 PM

Avete, 
 
Having heard much about flaming arrows, I wish to fire some myself. I have a 40LB recurve bow and some arrows that are allotted for this. I have gasoline and homemade napalm intended for this. 
Are there any suggestions concerning the execution of this? Have any of you fired flaming arrows before? If so, and words of wisdom would be appreciated. 
 
Valete, 
 
-Spatha190

Tarbicus · 02-16-2005, 01:28 AM

Quote:<hr>...I have gasoline and homemade napalm intended for this...<hr> 
Quote:<hr>...words of wisdom would be appreciated...<hr> 
 
 
Put that cigarette out?

02-16-2005, 02:38 AM

Frankly, the whole concept strikes me as having an enormous amount of inherent risk, and I would advise against it. Having said that, I assume you have arrows with fluted/notched heads that allow for the insertion of a cloth patch [which would then be set alight]? So-called "flaming arrows" are not simply regular arrows with the ends on fire somehow, but are specialty weapons designed for that purpose. I recommend making the whole operation a two-man job. Keep your container of pitch/kerosene/flammable liquid on the ground nearby. Have your friend standing by with fire-producing impliment. The safest would be a plastic Aim-N-Flame, although it certainly doesn't look very period. Anyway, orientating toward your target downrange, load a patch-tipped arrow onto the bow, then reach down, bow and all, and dip the patch tip on the end of your arrow ONLY into the flammable liquid. Next, draw to 3/4 draw (full-draw will be too close for hand safety, I would think). Aimed downrange, have your friend light the tip, and allow the flame to consume the entire patch. Then let fly. 
 
You'll really need to think this out beforehand. Some factors to consider: 
 
1) Your target area, where it is, what's behind it if you overshoot unexpectedly, etc. Right and left lateral limits should be clearly marked. 
2) Where you will be standing (on grass, asphalt, etc.) 
3) Test fire a non-flaming arrow at 3/4 draw to establish your range. 
4) Fire safety measures: at the very minimum, a fully-charged extinguisher that you (and your friend) know how to operate. 
5) Local fire ordinances. I'm not sure where you live, but some cities may consider this an illegal activity, or one where an actual representative of the fire department must be present by law. 
6) How the target area will be doused/made safe once the demo is over. 
 
Good luck! 
 
Darius

02-16-2005, 03:09 AM

Ave, 
In addition the above cautions offered, I think it is probably nearly a guarantee that the creation of jellyed gasoline/napalm is extremely illegal. It might be fun, but if you have an accident of any sort, you are liable to really be in some serious trouble. I think the whole idea falls under the "just because you can..." phrase. Be safe, be legal, be alive and intact, be free! 
 
Valete 
Oh yeah, don't make napalm...

Matt Lukes · 02-16-2005, 04:53 AM

Ave 
 
I've always considered a flaming arrow to simply be a small torch with fletching and a head. So all it really needs is a basic fuel reservoir like cloth as Darius suggests. I don't think you have to to anything special to the arrow though- all you'd need would be a narrow strip of burlap, for example, wrapped around the end and just tied-off- like a torch. 
 
'Napalm' is a nasty substance that has its own oxygen source, so doesn't need air to burn and is therefore all but impossible to put out until the oxidizer is used-up- not at all what's needed, nor desirable for something as simple as a flaming arrow. Even jellied-gasoline is unduly dangerous to use because some of it won't stay with the arrow in flight- try dipping an arrow in liquid dish soap and see how much drips off and is left behind as the arrow is loosed- then imagine the soap burning... 
 
I don't even regular gasoline is a good idea because of how volitile it is; I wouldn't try to light a gasoline-soaked arrow with even one of those long barbeque lighters- remember the fumes are far more flammable than the actual liquid, and you're just as likely to set your hand on fire as the arrow. So if you're dead-set on doing this, you should consider something that is flammable as a liquid, but not so flammable as a vapor. 
 
Honestly, I too would advise against doing this at all- even a 40lb bow can send an arrow a long way and even the best archers can have misfires (no pun intended )- the last thing you want is to start a fire before you can run downrange with your extinguisher or have an arrow go astray... Hell, if smoldering cigarette butts start a fair percentage of forest fires, imagine what flaming arrows could do! I'd think the only safe place to try this would be at the beach shooting out into the water- then you'd only have to worry about hurting yourself and breaking the law... 
 
Salve 
 
Matt 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=mattl@romanarmytalk>Matt L</A> at: 2/16/05 6:08 am

02-16-2005, 12:34 PM

With all due respect, 
 
This has all of the makings of a 
"hey Yall , watch this" ending. 
 
Please do not nominate yourself or a freind for a Darwin award.

**Robert Vermaat** · 02-16-2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:<hr>I'd think the only safe place to try this would be at the beach shooting out into the water<hr> 
 
I think a large sandy plain would do as well, or a big field during a after wet weather. I mean, take caution, sure, but one can overdo it. 
To illustrate: 
[url=http://www.esg.ndirect.co.uk/On%20Campaign%20Images/pages/Campaigns19_jpg_jpg.htm" target="top]Flaming Ermines[/url] Valete, 
Valerius/Robert 
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 2/17/05 2:05 pm

02-17-2005, 07:06 PM

Avete, 
 
Actually, I plan to fire off a balcony into the slums. I will retreat before the police start showing up. 
 
Valete, 
 
-Spatha

**Robert Vermaat** · 02-17-2005, 11:22 PM

Aw, sissy. If you were a real Roman you wuld play the lyre and watch the town burn, whilst singing sad songs. Valete, 
Valerius/Robert 
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]

Mithras · 02-17-2005, 11:22 PM

Looking at the incendiary arrowhead (from Bar Hill??) which resembles a little cage, wouldn't it be more appropriate to put in a burning ember? That way it heats up as it flies through the air and ignites only if it hits something flammable. Seems much more plausible to me than oil soaked arrowheads. Paul Elliott/Caius Fortunatus 
 
3rd Century Auxiliary (Cohors Quinta Gallorum) 
 
4th Century Legionnary (Comitatus) 
 
www.geocities.com/zozergames/interactive.html

Tarbicus · 02-18-2005, 12:45 AM

Errmm..... isn't everyone getting a tad pyromaniacal? You wanna burn down a bush, fine, in the name of historical research. You wanna talk about burning down a bit of a city, next thing the FBI alarms go "Whoo whoo whoo!!" 
 
In fact................................

Caius Fabius · 02-18-2005, 02:58 AM

Come to the fort at Lafe in March, we'll be having various forms of archery, and one target will be a Celtic wood and thatch roundhouse. Last year it was too windy for some experiments, but the arrows went through the thatch well enough. "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer

Aluscladiusmaximus · 02-18-2005, 02:56 PM

I have done some flaming arrow for filming so I will give you the benefit of my experiences. 
Do not tie anything to your arrows the force of shooting them may make the material slide back along the shaft . any packing should be stapled to the shaft. 
 
Make fire arrows specially do not use old arrows you want the full length of the shaft to keep the burning bit away from your hand and your bow. 
 
Most people wrap some felt around the shaft and nail/ staple the padding in place. I made wire cadges up to hold the padding. the cadges were 5 inches long and were soldered into brass tubing which attached the heads to the shaft. I used the necks from some old 7.62mm (.308 Nato) cartridges to do this as they are the right size to go on 11/323 shafts and the bullet hole is about right for the wire. 
 
Don't make your padding too wet as you have to point the arrows upwards and you don't want burning fuel to drip onto you or your bow. 
What we used was a mixture of paraffin and diesel fuel, the padding was a mixture of felt and sacking. normal material doesn't work very well. My first attempt was using paraffin on its own but it didn't work very well . 
your biggest problem will be the fire being blown out when you shoot the arrow. I was using a #70 bow . The other two bows we were using were about #30 and they didn't suffer so much from this. I would suggest a aluminium disk in front of the padding to keep the wind off 
 
For safety I would suggest a metal can/bucket with the flammable mixture in it and a lid for it. 
have a burning torch stuck in the ground to light the arrows. 
1 dip arrows in mixture and allow excess to drain off the padding 
 
2 cover can and move to shooting position at least 6 feet away and downwind from the bucket. just before you want to shoot, knock arrow and light padding on torch stuck in ground. hold arrows level, if you point them down the heat from the fire rises up to your hand and if you point them up they may drip. 
3 when you want to shoot pull back and release without much of a pause 
 
Fire arrows are heaver than normal arrows so I would practice with them (unlit of course) before any show you put on 
make sure the ground you are standing on is wet enough that it wont catch fire if burning mixture falls onto it. 
 
I agree that real fire arrows had small cadges which might well have held lit coals as they wouldn't blow out. It could be interesting to put a lit coal in a cadge and try it. 
 
As I am in England It is almost always safe to shoot fire arrows on grassland (it rains here so much) but do be careful where they land. At one re-enactment show in England lots of peoples cars were destroyed by fire when burning wadding from a cannon fell into the field they were parked in which had dry stubble in it which caught fire. 
 
Aulus Cladius Maximus

02-28-2005, 09:24 PM

I just get sparks going on some charred linen, surround it with flax and wood shavings, place it in the gage and shoot. The air flow sets the kindling alight. There is nothing clever in it. 
 
I wish you luck in burning down whatever you like. 
 
John 
 
www.comitatus.net

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