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Tarbicus · 03-21-2005, 09:28 PM

I've seen the photos now on the browguard thread, and as far as I'm concerned the Deepeeka Gallic H seems as good as any now. Anyone got any comments? 
 
From Xanten: 
<img src="http://www.romanauxilia.com/Exploratio/xanten/xanten_helmets/Image005_3Aa.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
<img src="http://www.romanauxilia.com/Exploratio/xanten/Image005_3A.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
From Nijmegen (Jasper?) 
<img src="http://www.romanarmy.com/RATstuff/Nijmegenhelmet.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
From India: 
<img src="http://albion-swords.com/images/armor/roman/dp6053b.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
<img src="http://albion-swords.com/images/armor/roman/dp6053a.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
I'm not trying to inflame anything, but I'd like to be shown the flaws in light of the reference above. Even the hooks for the crest are pretty much spot on. 
 
The one thing that stands out to me is possibly the size of the neckguard. But, I agree with some that all helmets were not from the same fabrica, etc. Besides, it's been more than ably demonstrated on other threads how to shorten the length of a neckguard with great success. However, the Xanten example has a longer neckguard than the Nijmegen. 
 
Jim/Tarbicus

***Praefectusclassis*** · 03-21-2005, 09:43 PM

Hi Jim, 
Yes, it is from Nijmegen, but Xanten is only 30 miles away on the other side of the border. 
I'm not sure the one I photographed is in fact an H. Maybe an A? With no bronze trimmings? Greets 
 
Jasper

Tarbicus · 03-21-2005, 10:26 PM

(post deleted due to repeat) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=tarbicus>Tarbicus</A> at: 3/21/05 11:29 pm

Tarbicus · 03-21-2005, 10:28 PM

Hey Jasper, 
 
This is the Gallic A from the Axel Guttmann Collection, as photographed by T. Flavius Crispus (Dave Michaels) I believe. To be honest, I think your photo far more resembles a Gallic H. 
 
<img src="http://www.legionsix.org/gallicAleft.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Jim/Tarbicus Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=tarbicus>Tarbicus</A> at: 3/21/05 11:30 pm

FAVENTIANVS · 03-23-2005, 04:49 PM

Where did Deepeeka took their imperial gallic and coolus browband model from? I've never seen it on the original ones. Ivan PerellÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â³ 
MARCVS CAECILIVS FAVENTIANVS 
 
<img src="http://geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/septimaniseniores2.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Ebusitanus · 03-23-2005, 05:25 PM

Actually I just checked Deepeeka and I do not see any Coolus displayed. They have a "Montefortino B" which looks like a Coolus. 
 
<img src="http://www.deepeeka.com/store/catalog/helmets/helmets_images/6063b.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

FlaviusCrispus · 03-23-2005, 05:44 PM

Ave, Tarbicus-- 
 
I've always though the Deepeeka Gallic H to be one of their most accurate helmets (along with their Gallic A and their Italics C, G and H). Like many of their products, if you want to be a real wonk, you can modify it a bit (cut down the neckguard, move some bosses around, etc.), but as Dan Peterson has noted (perhaps not very tactfully, but accurately), there is so much variation among Roman helmets, even within a supposed single Robinson-style classifcation, that I personally have no objection to someone wearing an off-the-shelf Deepeeka of one of the above types. 
 
Just to clarify, though, I don't think Matt Amt's opinion has ever been that all Roman helmets of a certain type were identical and that modern replicas have to adhere to some kind of rigid typology. I hesitate to speak for him, but I believe he would say his opinion would be that if you are going to make a replica of a Roman helmet, it is best to find a surviving example and copy it as closely as possible, rather than just making that kinda sorta looks like a Roman helmet and saying, "well, they probably did have something just like this." As evidenced by the photos posted by Tarbicus, there are plenty of surviving Roman helmets on which to base modern replicas. Otherwise, you end up with something like the infamous "trooper." 
 
T. Flavius Crispus

03-23-2005, 08:33 PM

actually, why does this helmet has to be a montefortino, though it has more in common with coolus-types (at first glance)? --------------- 
 
<img src="http://home.arcor.de/berzelmayr/bilder/bireme-21-kl.jpg"/> 
biremis

FAVENTIANVS · 03-23-2005, 10:57 PM

Ebusitanus: Actualy deepeeka have 4 coolus models, including the one you said, called coolus-buggenum, check it out at armae.com/antiquite/11antiquitecadre.htm Ivan PerellÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â³ 
MARCVS CAECILIVS FAVENTIANVS 
 
<img src="http://geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/septimaniseniores2.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Tarbicus · 03-23-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:<hr>Where did Deepeeka took their imperial gallic and coolus browband model from? I've never seen it on the original ones.<hr> 
 
Errmmm.... <img src="http://www.romanarmy.com/RATstuff/Nijmegenhelmet.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Perhaps?

FAVENTIANVS · 03-23-2005, 11:19 PM

Tarbicus: maybe I haven't explained myself clearly enough but I ment that all deepeeka browbands end with almost no angle compared to the original ones that this same browband ends with 30 aprox. more degrees, making it VERY different if you just try to look things closer before making an easy joke. 
 
Ivan PerellÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â³ 
MARCVS CAECILIVS FAVENTIANVS 
 
<img src="http://geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/septimaniseniores2.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Tarbicus · 03-23-2005, 11:46 PM

Aha! I think I see what you mean: 
<img src="http://www.romancoins.info/milit-helmet-iron.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
<img src="http://www.romancoins.info/iron-helmet-gallic-imperial.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
<img src="http://www.romancoins.info/Coolus-D4265326x.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Sorry, I obviously misunderstood. Yes, you seem to be right. There's only one top-down view I can find of a Gallic H/G, and it's too small to be certain, but the browband does seem to be different. 
 
As for chocolate teapots..... 
 
<img src="http://www.romancoins.info/imperialgallichelmet.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
<img src="http://www.romancoins.info/mil-helmet.JPG" style="border:0;"/> 
 
And it's "cheap" joke.... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=tarbicus>Tarbicus</A> at: 3/24/05 12:47 am

FAVENTIANVS · 03-24-2005, 03:45 PM

Ok, no problem. Thanks for the good pics. 
 
Vale comiles. Ivan PerellÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â³ 
MARCVS CAECILIVS FAVENTIANVS 
 
<img src="http://geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/septimaniseniores2.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

03-24-2005, 07:13 PM

I think on the last helmet there's a spot benath the crossbars, which indicates that it had a frontal guard. Right? --------------- 
 
<img src="http://home.arcor.de/berzelmayr/bilder/bireme-21-kl.jpg"/> 
biremis

FlaviusCrispus · 03-24-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:<hr>I think on the last helmet there's a spot benath the crossbars, which indicates that it had a frontal guard. Right? <hr> 
 
This is the Thielenhofen infantry helmet, in the Antikke Sammulung, Munich. I looked at it closely last time I was there for just that reason, but saw no evidence of any mounting holes for a brow peak. Most modern depictions of this helmet omit the peak. But I couldn't tell how much restoration was done, and it is always possible the mounting holes were filled in (or that area of the helmet was damaged and/or missing, and so had to be recreated by the restorer). 
 
Does anyone make a replica of this helmet? I'd really like to get one, as a variation on the standard Hebron helmet most of the guys in our (Hadrianic-Antonine) group use. 
 
T. Flavius Crispus 
Legio VI VPF 
CA, USA

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