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A confusing standard
#1
For those of you who have the book <i> Greece and Rome at War</i> htere's an image on p221 I don't understand. It says it's the stanard of a beneficiarius. Well i'd have thought he'd have had enough to do with his scrolls etc to lump about the great rather barbarian looking thing in the book. Did beneficarii parae together or something, is it a typo, or Am i just missing something here.<br>
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I will kick some life into this forum, I just have to come up with something contentious enough <p>It's not a bug, it's a feature</p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#2
Salve,<br>
<br>
Several types of Roman military functions had special spears as a mark of their position. These were usually a type of lancea. There were two distinct kinds, one a light javelin, the other a spear with decorated head of Celtic origin used as a badge of office by the beneficiarii and the speculatores. The former type is better known, but the lancea speculatoria is illustrated on one of their grave stones. Like the Benefiziarlanze resembles the lankia in the description of Diodorus of Celtic spears with decorated or flaming (ie shaped like the blade of an Indonesian kris dagger) spear heads. Some examples had side pendants and grips akin to standards, others have a more practical look.<br>
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Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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#3
thanks, this one though looks anything but practical! <p>It's not a bug, it's a feature</p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#4
Salve,<br>
<br>
It certainly does not appear to have been anything but a ceremonial head. In Greece and Rome at war you can find sme Celtic predecessors that inspired the lancea of the beneficiarius and speculator on page 115, figure 3 and 4, and on page117, spear head nr 37. The Cancellaria relief also features a lancea type head.<br>
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The spear head design was also used for decorating other equipment. Pendants and buckle fastener are illustrated in M.C. Bishop and J.C.N. Coulston's Roman military equipment (London 1993), pages 132 (nr 5) and 153. Original heads can be found at page 124, nrs 13 (same as in GRAW) and 14 (more business like).<br>
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There is an article on it:<br>
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Ritterling, E., 'Ein Ambtsabzeichen der beneficiarii consularis im Museum zu Wiesbaden' in: Bonner Jahrbuecher (1919), 9-37.<br>
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Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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#5
Would you say that the figure on 117 in GRAW is ceremonial or decorative. I see the similarities to the ceremonial examples but it doesn't look htat different to other celtic examples. Do you know what the purpose of the swelling towards the shaft of some celtic spears was for? <p>It's not a bug, it's a feature</p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#6
Salve,<br>
<br>
Such bulges are also found on some Roman spear heads, but I don't have a clue whether they had a special function. Speidel suggested in his Riding for Caesar that the lancea head of the speculatores Augusti, the praetorian bodyguards, as depicted on one of their grave stones was shaped to help in crowd control.<br>
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Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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#7
One would have thought that any kind of spear would have been relatively effective in crowd control ODE EM <p>It's not a bug, it's a feature</p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#8
Salve,<br>
<br>
It appears that the sort of crowd control was meant to be keeping people in check in a peaceful manner rather than killing off the public indiscriminately. While Roman troops on riot control duty could use rather brutal force to keep the peace (as described by Josephus on several occasions), the emperor's guard was usually restricted in their freedom of operations in the City itself, even if running battles between populace and guardsmen did occasionally occur. This use of the lancea was compared by Speidel to that of the optio's hastile, the spear shaft without a sharp head used to keep the troops in their place in the line. This was rather humane of the Romans, the Celts for instance are recorded as using real spears for keeping shirkers at their duties, an early predecessor of the German and Soviet blocking units of WW II who shot retreating troops.<br>
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Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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#9
Sander's spot-on about the Praetorians; for crowd control I would expect the Urban Cohorts and even the Vigiles saw a lot more use. Tacitus indicates the Urbani were formed for just such purposes as public policing. Apparently the Urbani and Vigiles had an uncertain and occasionally unfriendly relationship with the Guard and their cavalry arm, as well as the <i> Equites Singulares Augusti</i>.<br>
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We can find cases of the bodyguard arm coming to blows with the Roman "paramilitary" arm in the streets of Rome itself. Perhaps overlap in the missions of personal protection and public policing exacerbated existing tensions between the forces, which despite being referred to collectively as the 'Rome Cohorts' were not paid equally and did not enjoy equal privileges. <p></p><i></i>
Cheers,
Jenny
Founder, Roman Army Talk and RomanArmy.com

We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.
-- Robert Louis Stevenson
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#10
I realise of course that they didn't use spears for crow control, i was being facetious . i can imagine the various branches of army, paramilitary and police forces didn't get on too well thoughhaving praetorians turn up and start swaggering around and throwing their weight arounfd must have been the last thing the vigiles wanted.<br>
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as to the lancea issue, I suspect that it's rather similar to the halfpikes that continued to be carried by NCOs in Napoleonic armies for rank dressing, long after they were any use as weapons, unless it came to defending the colours, when I've read they coul be quite vicious, presumably they were still kept relatively sharp. <p>It's not a bug, it's a feature</p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#11
Salve,<br>
<br>
Your comparison with the Napoleonic half pikes seems very apt to me. The use of the hastile of the optio centuriae (which was named ouragos, rearrank officer, in Greek) indeed resembles the use of the half pikes, spontoons and halberds of 18th and early 19th century NCO's very closely. The speculatores Augusti carried their lanceae (the ceremonial heads perhaps to keep in accord with the religious taboo on weaponry within the pomerium (the cohors togata hid their weapons discreetly like modern bodygueards)) with them when escorting the emperor and would use these to keep the public in line. Some of the tasks of the imperial era beneficiarii would also be akin to that of the military constabulary and that may also help explain why they used decorative rather than real spear heads.<br>
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Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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#12
Salve,<br>
<br>
Here is a reference for speculatores of the cohortes praetoriae:<br>
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M.P. Speidel, Riding for Caesar, pages 33-35.<br>
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The emperor Galba was nearly wounded by the spear of one of his guards, so apparently the speculatores carried weapons with sharp points.<br>
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The urbaniciani had a similar structure of units as the praetorian cohorts, including organic horsemen, though to this date there is no evidence of any speculatores attached to their formations.<br>
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Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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