Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
signet rings; did they wear them?
#1
My daughter takes great pride looking things up on Ebay, and bought from an antiques dealer what they say is a legionary's signet ring, of twin scorpions, found on some battlefield (daughter forgot to ask which one) dating from the first century. It's a beautiful piece of engraving in a dark red stone.<br>
<br>
Did legionaries wear such things? I can see it being found near/in a fort, but a battlefield? Any way to compare this piece to authenticated pieces (not looking a gift horse in the mouth of course ) ? If anyone's curious I'll have to get a closeup lens for it. I think I'll even find some wax to try an impression to go with that. <p></p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply
#2
Salve,<br>
<br>
Though I am not sure whether a signet ring is involved, I found a monument with a Roman soldier wearing a ring. In Speidel's <i> Riding for Caesar</i> plate 9 shows a third century grave monument from Rome depicting a horse guard trooper with a prominent ring on his left ring finger. It is unclear what type of ring it is. Originally Roman citizens wore an iron ring as a sign of their status, while Roman knights and senators wore gold rings as mark of their superior standing.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#3
I admit defeat..what legion used the symbol of the twin scorpions?<br>
when I get this darn file upload working, I'll post the image. <p></p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply
#4
Salve,<br>
<br>
The use of scorpion badges is closely associated with the <i> cohortes praetoriae</i>. The scorpion was the sign of the emperor Tiberius who was regarded as the (second) founder of the guard after he concentrated their units in a single base at Rome itself. Troopers with shield badges of scorpions on monuments at Rome are regarded as representations of mounted praetorians (either the <i> speculatores</i> or the <i> equites praetoriani</i>). There is also a painting of troops with a single scorpion as a shield badge which is interpreted as a praetorian shield. It was also shown on an elaborate praetorian standard shown on a monument at Rome and featuring in Connolly's <i> The Roman army</i>.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=sandervandorst>Sander van Dorst</A> at: 2/28/01 2:01:47 pm<br></i>
Reply
#5
This should be a closeup of the ring. If a single is praetorian, would a double image be anything?<br>
<br>
<img src="http://romanarmy.freehomepage.com/scorp.jpg"> <p>Richard<br>
[email protected] </p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=richsc>RichSC</A> at: 3/1/01 3:33:53 am<br></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply
#6
Salve,<br>
<br>
On the machine that I am now using I cannot see the image, but perhaps it will work on my pc at home.<br>
<br>
Yesterday I checked Keppie for legionary symbols and he does not list the scorpion as a legionary badge. However <i> scorpio</i> is attested epigraphically as a name given to an artilleryman as well as the artillery piece (used for a bolt shooting double arm torsion gun in the early empire, apparently changed to the single arm catapult in the fourth century CE).<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=sandervandorst>Sander van Dorst</A> at: 3/1/01 11:26:37 am<br></i>
Reply
#7
<img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/S_scorpio.jpg"><br>
<br>
the ring! <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#8
Thanks again for posting that pic.<br>
<br>
Again, there is an illustration in "Imperial Rome at War' by Windrow & McBride where he says that the III Praetorian cohort has a statue or relief that has scorpions on their 'plaque'. <p></p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply
#9
Rich, I should have your daughter's ring assessed by an antiquities lab, whether a commercial one or a university facility. I run across quite a few cheaply priced "genuine Roman rings" on eBay and they are not hard to forge.<br>
<br>
Indeed there are some forgeries coming out of Eastern Europe these days which are very skillful indeed, and which lack a secure provenance since -- if they were genuine -- they would have been illegally exported. Be careful.<br>
<br>
Forgers know that people are mad about anything Roman and military, so they label something as a "legionary's" this or that, then pawn it off to some foolish dealer who adds a veneer of legitimacy through the power of showy description, and fobs it off on an unsuspecting public.<br>
<br>
I bought an auxiliary diploma fragment on eBay for $1200, which came from a reputable dealer by way of Bulgaria, had been authenticated by a commercial antiquities lab, and came with an ironclad durable guarantee. Unfortunately, having taken the diploma to both Margaret Roxan and Werner Eck (two of the world's experts on diplomata) we come to the regrettable conclusion that it is a very fine forgery. The giveaway was in several transcription errors that would likely fool anyone but a student of the diploma formula. So, the hard lesson is that even with testing one never can be sure.<br>
<br>
Forgers are sometimes clever enough to melt old metal and use it for new, more marketable artifacts. The better the condition a piece is in, the more suspicious one ought to be, particularly if it is offered cheaply. ($1200 for a sizable diploma fragment in that condition was a steal.) In any case, I can get my money back, but most of the things being offered on auctions are not refundable... and for a very good reason. Caveat emptor!<br>
<br>
<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>
Cheers,
Jenny
Founder, Roman Army Talk and RomanArmy.com

We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.
-- Robert Louis Stevenson
Reply
#10
I'd agree with Jenny.<br>
<br>
some years ago there was a belt plate for sale in Colchester and since the shop-owner 'just found in his collection and had forgotten he had it and no he didn't know the source', I didn't buy it.<br>
<br>
although it was 'only' £80 - really didn't want to spend that kind of money if it wasn't the real thing [my wages weren't that great- and still aren't ]<br>
besides which if it was genuine it was undoubtably nicked off a scheduled site [perhaps even the fort at Colchester].<br>
<br>
To me the value was in the history of the piece and not that it was an old bit of brass [well OK decorated brass!].<br>
<br>
as for rings with intaglios a member of our group turns them out [so if yours is stamped 'NN' then it's one of his!]<br>
Mind you if he gets hold of an itaglio like yours I might even buy it!<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Reply
#11
I rather suspect its origins too, but one can't look too closely at presents. I don't have much faith in ebay either, but the notion of having it authenticated is a great one, and I"ll sneak it off when the daughter isn't looking. <p>Richard<br>
[email protected] </p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply


Forum Jump: