New [i]lorica segmentata[/i] from Austria

[Anonymous]

Responding to the inquiries for more infos about a "nearly complete" <i> lorica segmentata</i> found in Austria, here's what I know about it:<br>
My source is an austrian popular magazine called "Archäologie Österreichs", one of the 2001 volumes (sorry, forgot to write the reference on my xerox). Under "News", there's a three-page article headlined "Ein römischer Spangenpanzer aus Stillfried an der March". There, in the extreme north-east of Austria (about 40 kms north of Carnuntum, in the <i> barbaricum</i> at the amber road), they found this piece in September 2000 during excavations in an otherwise urnfield-time settlement. It was lying in a round pit (diameter 70 cm), together with stones from a nearby street, snail's shells, bones of a lamb(?) and a deliberately rendered useless oil lamp.<br>
"It seems that all essential pieces are present", front, breast, back and shoulder parts including fittings. The girth hoops have a width of 7 cm, the loops "are decorated with bronze sheet metal" and at the lower end of the front(?) side, "one could recognize a bronze band".<br>
"It seems that the leather parts had rotted away before the cuirass was ritually buried in the pit; maybe it had been displayed on the top of a pole close to the road for a period of time before." For stratigraphical and historic reasons, a dating for the disposal in the reign of Trajan or Hadrian is suggested.<br>
The find had been secured in gypsum and transferred to the restoration workshops of the RGZM in Mainz for further examination; I don't know about the present status of it.<br>
<br>
Hope that helps!<br>
<br>
Martin/Magister Navis <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/umagisternavis.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Magister Navis</A> at: 1/7/02 12:00:51 am<br></i>

[Luca]

Thanks Martin.<br>
I'm looking on the web for any kind of news, but nothing.....<br>
Luca <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

Well that was the longest three months of *my* life - I saw this on the way back from ROMEC XIII in October but promised to keep quiet about it until it went public... which it now appears to have done.<br>
<br>
It is *not* a complete lorica seg, but two complete half-sets of girth hoops from a Newstead-type cuirass and fills in all the gaps I was lacking when I wrote my JRMES article. Although they were evidently being used as one cuirass, they are quite clearly non-matching (one set had seven plates, the other eight).<br>
<br>
I was wrong about the way girth hoops were fastened to each other, but the new find showed that the answer had been staring me in the face all the time: one half has the cast tie-loops as I (following von Groller) suggested, but the other had a big rectangular hole in it with a brass plate around it similar to those around the openings in the breast- and backplates. One of these hoops is already known from Iza (published in JRMES 5 in the article by Rajtar, Abb.7,1) but because it was published vertically I never paid it much heed - that'll teach me.<br>
<br>
The bottom edge of both halves is bound with copper alloy, the top edge of one is also, but there is no narrowing of the plates under the armpit as you find on the Corbridge type. The vertical fasteners are attached to the inside of the plates and poke through a hole but the best bit - harking back to earlier discussions on this site along the lines of 'how do you keep your belt up' is that an inverted pair of fasteners, one on either side at the mid-point of one of the lower (but not the lowest) hoops appears to be intended for this purpose (Peter Connolly - who has also seen the cuirass - suggested this to me and I agree).<br>
<br>
The leathers survive only as mineral-preserved organics and the two halves secure them in different ways - one just uses pairs of rivets, the other has pairs of washers fastened through a strip.<br>
<br>
The tie loops are tinned and at least one of them (I suspect a repair) was of iron!<br>
<br>
Interestingly, it implies that the Zugmantel hoops - with the very deep lowest plate - may not be Newstead type, possibly even Alba Iulia type.<br>
<br>
What's that sound? It's Matt Amt gurgling with delight...!<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[Gaius Octavius Drusus]

Ave et Salutatio:<br>
<br>
Dr. Bishop, is it reasonable to assume that those vertically-mounted fasteners you describe were also present on the Corbridge A & B loricae?<br>
<br>
Gaius Octavius Drusus <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

If you mean the inverted fasteners near the bottom (which *might* be intended to support the belt) then no, they do not occur on any of the surviving Corbridge-type girth hoops.<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[richsc]

I won't breath the word 'suspenderii' in front of Matt either...<br>
<br>
I was hoping I could find the article or at least the publisher of the magazine, but can't find any trace either. <p>Aulus, Legio XX.
the High Noise, Low Signal person for RAT.
ICQ 940236
</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=richsc>RichSC</A> at: 1/6/02 4:29:19 am<br></i>

[mcbishop]

Published by the Österreichische Gesellschaft für Ur- und Frühgeschichte (ÖGUF):<br>
<br>
www.univie.ac.at/urgeschi...oeguf.html<br>
<br>
given the problems with character sets, you have to search Google with each of archaologie/archaeologie/archäologie and you will find entries under all of them!<br>
<br>
It appears to have started putting itself on the web, but never got any further than one issue:<br>
<br>
www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a8612692/aoe.htm<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Yes, indeed, gurgling, frothing, dancing on my head! But I want PICTURES!! DIMENSIONS!! Length, width, height, and THICKNESS!<br>
<br>
I remember that plate with the slot and brass plate around it, and have always wondered what the heck it was. There even seems to be a similar piece in my blurry old photo of the Newstead fragments, up on one of the shoulders (at viewer's left), but not sure. So, are we thinking that those loops on the other side were stuck through the slots and secured with split rings or something? Or are these just halves of completely different fastening systems that have been jury-rigged together?<br>
<br>
Gads, brass edging on GIRDLE PLATES---what ecstatic agony! And belt loops!! Richard, I might have to transfer you forward in time to the reign of Hadrian!<br>
<br>
We moved to a new house just before Christmas, so it'll be months before my workshop is rebuilt and running, but heck, I built my first lorica on a bedroom floor, I can do it again! The wife will kill me, I'm supposed to be taking the Christmas tree down and unpacking boxes...<br>
<br>
Thanks, Martin and Dr. Mike! PICTURES PICTURES PICTURES!!<br>
<br>
Valete (froth, giggle, drool!),<br>
Matthew/Quintus, Leg. XX <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

It might take a while to get details like dimensions etc into the public domain.<br>
<br>
The Newstead piccy you mention just has the backplate paired with the breastplate in the old Queen Street museum display. The Iza girth hoop differs somewhat from the Stillfried ones as the rectangular fittings on the latter are *identical* to those on the breast- and backplates of the Newstead example, but the Iza piece covers the whole of the end of the hoop.<br>
<br>
The loops fitting through the slots make perfect sense and yes I think split pins were used to fasten them. On the other hand, it wouldn't really make sense to have two completely different mathods of fastening girth hoops in use at the same time which just happen to turn up together on a cuirass nailed to a tree (it has the nail holes in it, believe me!) ;-)<br>
<br>
I would be wary of the dating until we see chapter and verse on it - like Iza, Stillfried was one of the outpost sites during the Marcomannic Wars and there is other military equipment from there.<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Dr Bishop, thanks very much for your valuable "first" hand information about this piece; now we can make ourselves a more satisfying picture than from the partly quite speculative "Archäologie Österreichs"-article.<br>
Forgot to mention that the latter features two photos: one is useless, because it only shows three workers around the completely gypsum-covered lorica, but the other is a close-up of the piece <i> in situ</i> with a few but not too much details visible.<br>
Over the next days I'll try to find out the exact reference for the magazine article as well as ordering information, if needed.<br>
Rich, so far I was just as unsuccessful as the rest of us in finding any news about our piece on the net - and I did my searching in german...<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Martin/Magister Navis <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/umagisternavis.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Magister Navis</A> at: 1/6/02 11:55:20 pm<br></i>

[Anonymous]

Just found the exact reference for the article:<br>
<br>
EIBNER, Clemens: "Ein römischer Spangenpanzer aus Stillfried an der March". In: Archäologie Österreichs Vol. 11 (from 2000, NOT from 2001, as I thought before!) No. 2 ("2. Halbjahr"); pp. 32-34.<br>
<br>
The Organization is, as already stated, the "Österreichische Gesellschaft für Ur- und Frühgeschichte (ÖGUF)", c/o Institut für Ur- und Frühgeschichte, Franz-Klein-Gasse 1, A-1190 Wien/Austria. Fax is (+43) 01-4277-9404, a contact email address would be [email protected] .<br>
<br>
The ISSN of the magazine is 1018-1857 and the cost of this "No. 2" is 6,90 EUROS, without p&p, of course.<br>
<br>
Utere felix!<br>
<br>
Martin/Magister Navis<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

Thanks for the full reference.<br>
<br>
Spangenpanzer is an unusual term for it - I've only come across this in relation to coats of plates (like Wisby), Schienenpanzer or Plattenpanzer being more normal. Babelfish thinks Spangenpanzer is 'clip tanks' - I like that!<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>