08-22-2016, 01:39 PM
(08-22-2016, 05:51 AM)JaM Wrote: sorry but you are denying basic laws of physics and human psychology... nobody in his sane mind would want to be in a front row of a 8-16 (or more) formation pushing against another 8-16 men formation, while holding 2.5-3m long spear in the middle.. humans are not machines.
and he is right about overarm "thrusts", those are much weaker than uderarm thrusts. even Thrand doesnt do a thrust but practically a sliding throw...
and of course, everybody just keep ignoring the fact that Chigi vase clearly shows the ANKYLE attached to those JAVELINS.
You have set up a false dichotomy where overhand means spears held in the middle. I concur with Mathew's description of the classical battle dory, mine is over 8' long and weighted to about 1/4 from the sauroter and I use it overhand just fine. There is no reach advantage for underarm against overarm when striking. There is an ability to hold the underhand spear extended in a static pose- which is a rather stupid thing to do. There is also no fatigue advantage if you know how to use the spear in overhand- hint: you don't hold it up in the air for a half hour.
You are simply wrong about the force generated by underarm thrusts. Every study except Mathew's has shown this- which should make you wonder. Thrand does not always slide, I have been showing him that you don't need to and he has shown as much in his latest video on shield and spear. There are ankyle on the Chigi because at that date, probably well into the Archaic period, hoplites used two spears, throwing at least one. Hoplites did not remain unchanged from the 7thc to the 4th.
