[split] Phalanx warfare: use of the spear

[JaM]

weighting the back of the spear means you cannot hold it in the middle, or at front, as for example Thrand is doing with his sliding throws. It means you have to hold it in the rear, and also such weapon is then unsuitable to be thrown at all (so no ankyle on it) as it would have incorrect flight trajectory (but thats besides the point.)

Next thing is the that with weighted spear, and thrusts, you kinda have sauroter at the height of your face, but more importantly a man behind you. if you  try to withdraw the spear, you might hit him in the head, plus, its kinda something you would not have to be worried about in the heat of battle while standing behind somebody. yes, you can rise the arm higher, to get the spearpoint in correct height, but then you will experience faster fatigue due to blood loss.. plus, again, you would have to be constantly aware of what you are doing to not hurt people behind..

Then there is the whole grip notion.  with overarm, your wrist is the most stressed part. Each hit against something would create stress, any attempt to maneuver with spear, would just increase the stress. and if you are holding the spear in the back, your wrist has to hold the whole weight alone during the attacks.

Also, i would like to see some measuring for speed of attack with such thrusts. Yes, Thrand overarm is very fast, but that's not thrust, but throw, and his spear grip is different, his spear is differently weighted. I can imagine this type of attack to be used with a throwing spear/heavy javelin, properly weighted towards front (you get better speed with weight in front with the trajectory of the throw.)

And yes, i kinda cannot imagine how you would move the spear into overarm while its still at horizontal position in a formation. I'm not talking about single file, or single row, but let say if you are in a second row and you have men in front of you, on sides of you and behind you, and all have shields and own spears, and have to do the same thing at once. Any chance you have some video of that?


and about previous posts:

I understand, and you have hit upon why some of use get quickly frustrated with these discussions.  You unfortunately have been put in the position of defending a position that to many of us is simply obviously wrong.  If I told you that people throw balls faster underhand than overhand, you would immediately know that was bull because you have done both and know from personal experience what the truth was.  That is where many of us are with the dory.  Now imagine you are posting on a baseball forum about some guy you read who assures you that underhand throws are best and all of us who have been pitching for years are wrong.  Our immediate reaction would be to write you off, but perhaps there is an explanation that you were really reading an author playing softball or cricket where the odd rules they chose to play by made underhand the only option.  That is quite literally what has happened to this debate.  That is why our first advice is try it yourself.

yes, throw is better overarm, due to upward trajectory to the certain point. afterwards, speed decreases drastically, so practically, you need to release the missile before you reach that point. with the thrust, you are getting way after that point, unless you use the spear the way Thrand does.


Oh, and yes, you are completely right about the spacing, i was fighting this while working on the mod for R2TW (must say, that was the least satisfying experience so far, game is a hot mess, and CA should be punished for spreading so many nonsense things into common population).. using these numbers he had in book were just way too tight so eventually, i had to use 0.6 value too. (kinda funny how game actually forces you into the right conclusion, isnt it?)