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**richsc** · 07-27-2001, 01:42 AM

A fellow I was speaking with this evening related that he'd seen a museum exhibit of a Gaul who had been dug up with a pilum going all the way through him. Apparently the pilum has fragments of shield boss and wood, so it had also penetrated the shield too. If this is correct, it gives good evidence of the power of the pilum. 
Does anyone know where this skeleton would be?

Goffredo · 07-27-2001, 08:38 AM

I know that many experiments were made with reconstuctions but I haven't had the opportunity to read the technical books and articles about them. In "generic" books about roman weapons I read that the pilum was designed to puncture a shield and reach the unlucky fellow behind and indeed I assumed this is true as the long and narrow shaft seems perfect for this. But I would like to know quantitatively how effective it was against shields. Does anyone have some numbers to quote?

mcbishop · 07-27-2001, 05:37 PM

Are we sure there is not a confusion here with the skelly from Maiden Castle with a javelin head (most books - wrongly - call this a catapult bolt) embedded in his spine? Never come across a Gaul wearing a *pilum* in this way and would certainly be interested if it is genuine (and presumably unpublished). 
 
Lots of people have tried chucking *pila* at things - but I think the first documented experiments (shame on everybody else!) were Junkelmann's in his *Die Legionen des Augustus*. I know Peter Connolly and David Sim have done things (some of which I think Peter will be talking avbout at ROMEC this year). These things were the DU AP rounds of their day. 
 
Amusingly, until quite recently (about 1993;-) most books said the function of the *pilum* was to bend on impact (which always seemed a bit like saying the function of a car is to display a particular shade of paint on its body work - ie, a non sequitur). 
 
Mike Bishop

07-27-2001, 06:22 PM

Funny you should bring up the "bend on impact angle". After reading the original post, I was going to ask if anyone knows of this skeleton, and if so, is the pilum bent? SI HOC LEGERE POTES, OPERIS BONI IN REBVS LATINIS FRVCTVOSIS POTIRI POTES.

Goffredo · 07-27-2001, 06:39 PM

The "bending"! 
I can easily imagine the iron shaft wouldn't bend but that the connection of the shaft to the wooden lower half would break or give and the pilum would become unusable as a missile (too unstable to throw effectively). At least this is what I find written most places. Is this false too? If yes then, in the light of more recent considerations, what is the correct description of the pilum design and effectiveness? Why do you say 1993 is the year people started describing things differently? Is there a specific work (Junkelmann's?) that proved realistic reproductions don't break or bend? I don't know German (yet) and so I haven't yet updated myself in the most recent technical literature such as Junkelmann's.

mcbishop · 07-27-2001, 09:54 PM

The shank would certainly bend if the head stuck in something because of the weight of the wooden shaft (this is what Caesar says in the famous passage about the Helvetii). My point (pun semi-intended) was that writers had until quite recently said that the raison d'etre of the *pilum* was to bend upon impact, which is plain silly. It is certainly a useful characteristic if it does that, but that is not its function. In the form with a pyramidal head, it is designed to pierce the shield and then any armour behind it. Once it has done its job and is sticking through the shield and in the victim, if what remains of the shank bends, then so much the better - it can't easily be pulled out and thrown back. 
 
Mike Bishop

**richsc** · 07-27-2001, 10:40 PM

The fellow who related the story to me, a US Army reenactor just returned from post in the Netherlands, will be here at a cookout this Sunday, so I'll ask him for more detail. He had a lot to say about Alesia, and I got the impression the skeleton was in a French museum, but I'll find out. His name is Sean Kuhl, and he says he's acquainted with Sander, who might be able to share references? 
He was very descriptive of the skeleton, as if he'd actually seen it, so I'll post asap. 
 
Reminds me, if anyone is in the DC area they're all invited to the cookout Sunday. Richard 
http://www.geocities.com/richsc53/studies/

07-27-2001, 11:03 PM

Shoot! I was in Williamsburg LAST Sunday. What timing! E EM SI HOC LEGERE POTES, OPERIS BONI IN REBVS LATINIS FRVCTVOSIS POTIRI POTES.

**richsc** · 07-30-2001, 12:29 AM

sorry..not French: Dutch. The skeleton is in the Provincial Museum, Nijmegan. It apparently is not a complete skeleton but enough of the arm, ribs and spine to show how the pilum head split the radius/ulna, penetrated the ribs and bent inside the ribcage while carrying a bit of the shield boss with it. Richard 
http://www.geocities.com/richsc53/studies/

***Praefectusclassis*** · 07-30-2001, 04:33 AM

In Nijmegen?? I'll have to go back and check. It's possible though that he saw this in the former Provincial Museum GM Kam in Nijmegen, some years ago this was combined with some other museums into one bigger one. The collection on display is a lot smaller now. 
However, it seems that the depot will be accessible to the public. I'll check it out. 
 
Greets 
 
Jasper

**richsc** · 07-30-2001, 09:30 AM

my omission..entire address is 
 
Provincial Museum 
G M Kam 
Museum KamStraat 
45 NL 6522 GB Nijmegan Richard 
http://www.geocities.com/richsc53/studies/

***Praefectusclassis*** · 07-30-2001, 09:36 AM

Thanks Rich, but that's the adress of the old museum. The new, combined one has moved. The depot stills seems to be there though. When I find the time, I'll jump on my bike and ride over there. 
 
Greets 
 
Jasper

**richsc** · 09-03-2001, 02:03 PM

ok, so at yesterday's fabricum I asked him where this was. He was a bit less certain, and mentioned army museums in Leiden and Delft, and that perhaps it was a traveling exhibit. Could it be at a medical museum? I guess probably best thing to do is start emailing the curators and seeing who knows where that is. Aulus 
Legio XX

***Praefectusclassis*** · 09-03-2001, 02:50 PM

Hi Rich, 
The museum in Delft has a website www.legermuseum.nl, have a look there. Leiden doesn't have an army museum, used to, but it moved to Delft, the one mentioned above. Greets 
 
Jasper

Jeroen Pelgrom · 09-10-2001, 09:02 AM

salve everybody, 
 
i saw a picture of the skeleton and the spine of this skeleton is impaled with a bolt from a scorpio (a large crossbow). A couple of weeks ago i saw a scorpio i action in the Archeon (from Legio II Augusta). The scorpio shot an arrow of 0.5m long with iron head at a target which was 50 m away (the target was a straw-german). The target was impaled by the arrow. The scorpio-crew said that this was the light setting, if the scorpio was set on battle setting, the arrow whould have gone straight through the target. I doubt that a hand thrown pilum could reach the same effect. 
 
greetings from Jeroen Pelgrom

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