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07-23-2002, 11:42 PM

Apologies if this subject has already been discussed, but I thought that the relatively specific questions that I have might warrant a new topic. 
 
In a book on Ancient Greece that I'm currently reading, I read that by the 4th century BC the Olympic Games was dominated by specialist athletes who were exempted from military duty and devoted their professional lives to training for sports. The passage goes on to say that their diets consisted of large quantities of meat, which apparently built large upper body muscular mass (and thus strength), a physique that was 'deemed unsuitable for warfare but particularly good for sport'. This last statement grabbed my interest, especially since the militarian Spartans prohibited such training and diet and stopped sending athletes to the Games, an event which they had more or less dominated prior to the introduction of professional athletes. 
 
My question is this: did the Roman legionaries adopt a particular diet that they believed helped them to be more efficient soldiers? Did they avoid eating alot of meat since it might produce a 'top-heavy' body that was not suitable for warfare? Btw, why would a top-heavy body not be suitable for a warrior? I would presume that upper body strength would be an asset in wielding spears, swords and large body shields (although Connolly suggests that the legionaries did not wield their shields freely due to their sheer size, but rather carried them with arms straight in the charge, and during contact, rested the shields before them and fought from behind the offered protection). 
 
Thank you for the indulgence. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/uauxilia.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Auxilia</A> at: 7/24/02 1:42:59 am

07-24-2002, 12:36 AM

Not sure about the ancients but think of yourself, or someone you know that works out. Eating large amounts of protein will not by itself equate to large upper body muscles, nor overall muscle mass. Diet goes hand in hand with your training. If you train you body to push large quantities of weight, then your muscles will adapt by becoming larger. Whereas soldiers (those that don't body build) tend to be "lean, mean, fighting machines", meaning their musculature is designed for speed, endurance and power. The only thing your diet will affect, is how much buidling materials for your muscles and energy your body has available to it. "Only Trajan could go to Dacia." 
 
Magnus/Matt 
Optio 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"

07-24-2002, 02:47 PM

Size does not equal strength. Bodybuilders often lack functional strength. 
 
The Romans were issued a bag of grain every morning, but they didn't eat it until the evening generally when the day's work was done. Then they'd eat whatever they happened to have from the supply train or what they could kill on a hunt. 
 
Roman soldiers did job-specific training that prevented them from getting large, but they were wiry-strong. They trained as they fought and fought as they trained. 
_____________________________________________ 
The Way of a Warrior is based on humanity, love, and sincerity.
The heart of martial valor is bravery, wisdom, love, and friendship.
-- Ueshiba Morihei
 
_____________________________________________

Matthew Amt · 07-24-2002, 03:42 PM

Avete! 
Yeah, from what I've heard these guys were the tough and wiry types. (I know a couple--I don't mess with them!) 
 
But Shogun, what's this about the bag of grain not eaten until evening? I hadn't run across anything like that before. There is at least one source (Josephus?) that mentions the soldiers carrying several days' worth of rations in their packs, and that it could be grain, flour, or hardtack (bucellatum). Bacon is also mentioned (so they DO get some meat!), lentils, etc. 
 
Roy Davies wrote a very good article called "The Roman Military Diet", and as I recall the troops are eating darn well. They seem to be getting rather more than they need, in fact, but I suspect that some of their rations are being shared with slaves or family. (Trading food pops up in several of the Vindolanda letters.) Davies also mentions hunting, and says that the officers could hunt for fun or their own eating, but the men were only permitted to hunt for communal use. His list of what kinds of animals were eaten seems to be based on skeletal finds, which doesn't quite follow--just because an animal died in a fort doesn't mean the soldiers ate it! (Can you see the great legionary mole hunt? "Dig, Gaius, dig! We'll cover you!") 
 
Valete, 
Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX

07-24-2002, 04:10 PM

Didn't Polybius write about a daily ration of grain that the legionaries would receive in the morning? 
 
The idea of eating in the evening comes from Ori Hoffmekler's The Warrior Diet. 
_____________________________________________ 
The Way of a Warrior is based on humanity, love, and sincerity.
The heart of martial valor is bravery, wisdom, love, and friendship.
-- Ueshiba Morihei
 
_____________________________________________

07-24-2002, 10:15 PM

"Can you see the great legionary mole hunt? "Dig, Gaius, dig! We'll cover you!" 
 
Hahaha, good one Matt. The notion of fully armored legionaries digging after little rodents is quite amusing. Do you think we've stumbled upon an ancient version of Caddyshack?

Richomeres · 07-29-2002, 04:37 PM

Want would a hunting accident look like, when hunting moles? Maybe a miles buried under a mole-hill? 
 
Cheers, 
 
Helge

Matthew Amt · 07-29-2002, 05:46 PM

Helge, as long as no one makes a mountain out of it, he should be able to get free! Skeletal finds would include toe bone trauma, right? 
 
JC: Bill Murray in a lorica? Chilling thought... 
 
Matthew/Quintus

Richomeres · 07-30-2002, 06:43 AM

Well Matthew, 
what about a miles buried under a hill of moles after they ambushed him to defend themselves? 
 
Cheers, 
 
Helge

08-02-2002, 01:00 PM

From what I've read the legionary diet was pretty varied and contrary to a popular belief did not involve a lot of game but rather domesticated animals. They ate beef, pork, mutton and goat. 
The vegetable diet was pretty varied too and involved not only wheat in several forms (gruel, bread, bucellatum) but lentils, cabbage and several other garden vegetables. 
Diet of course varied considerably for an area to another. Documents found in Syria show that in some remote desert outposts the main concern of the men was food. 
In Gaul, they may have eaten dog, where it was considered a threat and where special breeds of dogs were especially raised for the meat. This is one culinary tradition that disappeared in France.. 
Aaahh... barbecued Rottweiler ribs...

09-08-2002, 03:07 AM

Shogun no Rin 
"Size does not equal strength. Bodybuilders often lack functional strength." 
 
Not always, but very often body builders do value flexibility almost if not as much as flexiblity and functunality. I would imagine that the upkeep training excercises in combatives would keep soldiers in fighting form no matter how much muscle mass might build up. As long as it wasn't a hindrance to range and speed of movement, I can't imagine that strength could be a liability in melee warfare.

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