actual use of "Attic" helmet by the roman soldiers

[Anonymous]

I can read in a lot of books that the "Attic" helmet must be only an artistic convention to protrait roman soldiers, because there is not any archeological evidence; but I can see in the reliefs of the Traian's and Antonine columns that different figures wear several types of helmet: legionaries and auxiliaries with "Imperial Gallic" or "Imperial Italic" helmet, other legionaries and auxiliaries with "Attic" helmet, archers with conical ones, praetorians with plumed "Attic" helmet... in the later Antonine column the "Attic" helmets seems the most used; in other reliefs, like the Louvre one, this kind of helmet seems to be associated with the praetorians. If it is only an artistical convention, why this convention is in not exstended to all the figures of the same relief?<br>
It's so wrong idea to believe that roman soldiers wear actually "Attic" Helmet like the sculpture seems to suggest? There is any recent archeological discovery which can support the use of this helmet?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Lucianus <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!<br>
I think this subject has come up before, you might want to check the Index thread or do a subject search.<br>
<br>
The Attic helmet was pretty widely used during the early Republic, and there are a number of surviving examples from that period. Peter Connolly's books show a few. They are also clearly shown on frescoes and such. During the Empire they seem to be part of the "traditional" kit for officers, but we're not sure if they were worn by the common troops any more. There are a pair of helmets from Herculaneum which H. Russell Robinson calls Imperial Italic type A, which are pretty much Attic in form, but we don't know if they were used by Urban Cohorts, Praetorians, or what.<br>
<br>
Closer examination of Trajan's Column shows that most of these helmets aren't really Attic, they seem to be representing the commonly-known legionary types, if somewhat stylized. The neckguards often stick out more abruptly from the bowl, and there is a reinforcing bar across the front.<br>
<br>
The Louvre relief shows OFFICERS, not common Praetorians. And the heads of the 3 men in the foreground (as well as the middle third of the guy on the left) are all Renaissance replacements, though they are copied from those in the background.<br>
<br>
"Artistic convention" is where the debate rages most fiercely. I try not to assume that all artists are liars (especially since I'm married to one!!), but I DO prefer to go with archeological evidence whenever possible. It is pretty clear that some later sculptures were simply copied from earlier ones, with even more stylization creeping in, or simply chiseled off an old monument and glued onto a new one! (Cheepskates...) Plus there is a growing gulf between the "metropolitan" sculpture in Rome and that which you find out in the provinces, the latter being much more true to life.<br>
<br>
As usual, beware! I think the Attic helmet was an officer thing in the Empire, basically.<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot!<br>
<br>
..."There are a pair of helmets from Herculaneum which H. Russell Robinson calls Imperial Italic type A, which are pretty much Attic in form"...<br>
...were can I find pictures of these helmets?<br>
<br>
Best Regards<br>
Lucianus, from Interamna Nahars (today Terni) Regio VI Umbria<br>
Tacitus' home <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Well, aside from Robinson's book, I think Connolly shows one of them (they are nearly identical) in "Greece and Rome at War". Good book to have in any case! Or am I thinking of his smaller book "The Roman Army"? (Or is it in both?)<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

Attic "type" helmets abound during imperial times. It really just depends on what you call an attic helmet. Even the early "true" attic helmets of the republic have the "visor" raised as one with the skull rather than the "hollywod" extra visor (although an original one of these exists and can be seen in Robinson). The whole series of Koblenz-Bubenheim 1st century cavlary helmets have an applied "attic" style visor, though flat on the skull like the Herculaneum helmets. These visors project prminently in true hollywood fashion in the cavalry helmets of the second and third centuries, culminating in the Theilenhofen helmet which any sword and sandal Italian epic hero would be proud to wear. And despite how fancy it looks, the inscriptions suggest it was owned by a succession of regular soldiers. So hollywood style, "attic" helmets were indeed alive and well in Imperial times, and used by regular soldiers.... at least in the cavalry.<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Oops, thanks, Dan, I forgot about the cavalry helmets! (Hey, I'm INFANTRY...) Yeah, lotta Attic features on those, but yeah, it's hard to say just what is an "Attic" helmet and what ain't.<br>
<br>
And remember, if you have something as snazzy as that Thielenhofen helmet and one of your buddies says, "If you die, can I have your stuff?", don't say "Sure!" and then turn your back on him....<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Michel Feugère classes the Holllywood style-attic such as the Teilenhofen as Guisborough type from the eponymus piece found at Guisborough, England. It's as good as anything.<br>
The Guisborough type is a cavalry type inasmuch as the cheek guards covering the ears automatically mean cavalry. Most of them are far less fancy than the Teilhenofen which is an extreme baroque example.<br>
On the other hand, scalloped cheek pieces of classical attic style have also been found and if you snap one of these on a Guisborough helmet of the plainer type you get exactly what the praetorian relief of the Louvre and the trajanic friezes on the arch of Constantine --and many others are showing.<br>
As the Teilenhofen demonstrate, these were certainly troopers and soldiers' helmets.<br>
One little known helmet could figure more realistically for an officer: it's a piece of the italo-corinthian type dated Ist Cenury AD found at Autun, France.<br>
It's fitted with a crown of bronze laurel leaves, a god-like figure on the visor, cheek guards imitating a beard and a neck guard made of horizontal lames, samurai style.<br>
Incidentally it ranks first, just before the Teilenhofen, in my personal gallery of the ugliest helmets ever made..<br>
IIIrd century sarcophagi reliefs depict this type of helmet, albeit in the conventional simplified form, worn by officers among other types, including earlier Weiler types. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=antoninuslucretius>Antoninus Lucretius</A> at: 8/22/02 3:59:57 pm<br></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

I recently finished a metal electrotype of the Theilenhofen, completely silvered and gilded with red horsehair crest. It was shown at the Saalburg during the Connolly Summer tour and I think even Peter has a greater appreciation for it now. When the lions and other decorative features are gilded on a silver background, the helmet looks less "lumpy" and far more aethetically pleasing. When restored to its original magnificence, it is really a beautiful helmet.<br>
<br>
The Heddernheim pseudo-Corinthian is next!<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

UH? The Heddernheim Pseudo-corinthian?<br>
Is it like the Autun helmet?<br>
I am slightly drooling just right now... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=antoninuslucretius>Antoninus Lucretius</A> at: 8/22/02 5:07:52 pm<br></i>

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all, again.<br>
<br>
<br>
I only know the Theilenhofen one from Connolly book.<br>
There is any book or web page which shows these particular helmets (Attic, pseudo-corinthian, Imperial Italic A, "Hollywood Style" models with visor...)<br>
<br>
Bets Regards,<br>
Luciano <p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

Luciano,<br>
The Heddernheim helmet can be seen in H. Russell Robinson's Armour of Imperial Rome, out of print now for over 25 years but probably accessible at a respectable library. Sombody uses on RAT as an icon as well. It is similar to Autun with a face on the fake corinthian visor, but has a tall crest surmounted by an eagle or griffin head. It is probably a griffin, for in a rather bizarre version of this helmet in which there are TWO birdlike heads, clawed forarms are embossed below them suggesting a Griffin rather than bird.<br>
<br>
at the time of Robinson, the only known Koblenz-bubenheim helmet known was a stripped iron skull with no decoration. Since then several spectacular 1st century cavlary helmets have been found, most of a "pseudo attic" style.<br>
<br>
There are lesser known Roman helmets so bizarre you probably wouldn't believe them. What you see in the well known publications are only the "tip of the iceberg". I'm working with a friend to publish the majority of them, but it is impossible to keep up. I am informed about a "newly" discovered helmet every couple of months or so.<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot, Dan. I look forward any new pubblication about this matter. I'm almost new to the study of the "armamentarium", sorry if my questions seem too banal.<br>
Why do helmets with the cheek guards covering the ears automatically mean cavalry helmets? Is it a traditional assumption or is it an ineluctable deduction from evidenced elements, which exculdes the use of these items by infantry?<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Luciano. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

AH! That one. Doesn't Nix makes a reproduction of it?<br>
It is also of a type in which the cheek guards were actually made in one piece, tucked under the visor and tied behind the neck guard. The museum at Mainz has some of these.<br>
Several simpler pieces of that type have been found and it seems they were used with a trilobate face mask, of which I found very few references besides a passing mention here and there.<br>
Any plan on havng one of these "tripartite" helmets made in the near future, Dan?<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

Antoninus,<br>
For the sevral helmets in which I possess direct electrotypes, I will not copy them out of respect of the institutions that possess the originals. Besides, sometimes its nice to be the only guy at a reenactment with a particularly interesting helmet. Deepeeka now has excellent embossing resources, and I am putting together a package which includes plans for the Worthing Helmet, very similar to the Heddernheim Griffin helmet, but attic form instead of pseudo-corinthian. I'd like to add this one to my historical "dragon" collection, as it has a classic, though somewhat primitive representation of a Greco-Roman "Ketos" sea dragon. Of course, if they make one for me they'll want to offer it to the public too. This helmet was intended to have a feather or horsehair crest as well, so would have quite the "hollywood" look when fully fitted out.<br>
Dan.i <p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

Lucianus,<br>
I believe the distinction between Cavalry and Infantry helmets by the presence of ear coverings was true enough in the 1st century, but became more muddled later. There is a fairly clear representatio of a "Niederbieber" type cavalry helmet on an infantryman's gravestone. I believe in the later empire, the ear coverings may have signified "heavy" troops, both cavlary and infantry.<br>
<br>
Dan. <p></p><i></i>