Riveted Maille

[Marcus Artorius Silvanus]

Ave!

I've had a long interest in maille armor, and especially riveted maille. Now, I would like to start creating some, but I've got a question about it.

The rivets used in maille armor...you know, the little things that look like the tops of needles/kinda mushroom shaped...well, how would you go about making them? Especially for such small rings as would be used by the Romans. :?

I'm thinking of using somewhere between 18-16ga wire at 3/16-1/4" in size...so the rivet will be quite small. Any suggestions?

Also, where is a good place to get washers/solid rings at? Of similar porportions as the rings above...can be mild steel, brass or bronze.

And as a side note, any used that 16ga rebar tie-wire sold at places like Home Depot or Lowes? Think it would make good riveted maille rings? I've played with it some, and it is soft and easy to work with (though I've heard some claim it rusts quickly...I've got some I bought from Home Depot thats been from Arizonia to Kentucky to California...in like, 4 years, and it hasn't shown any signs of rust yet, and it isn't galvinized...just coated in this black oilly stuff...). Thoughts?

[caiusbeerquitius]

The rivets on Roman chain mail are not mushroom-shaped. They have the shape of a wedge. The mushroom-shaped rivets are not to be found before the 7th century AD.

[Neuraleanus]

but, definitely doable. I've been working on a shirt for about a year now and I have just the upper section done. In a nother year or two I may have a complete shirt of hamata.

I haven't seen the steel wire from Home Depot, I bought my wire from the Ring Lord:

http://www.theringlord.com/

Wedge rivets and other tools may be purchased from Forth Armory:

http://www.forth-armoury.com/Product_Ca ... pplies.htm

One rule, though, never attempt to use galvanized wire. You need to anneal the rings prior to flattening and the zinc flumes are poisonous. I've written a Word doc on how I make riveted maille. It may be found in the file section at the Legio XXX Yahoo group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/legio30cohort2/

Solid rings, aka washers, may be purchased in bulk quantities from Seastrom:

http://www.seastrom-mfg.com/

caiustarquitius,

From where did you get your iformation on the shpe of roman maille rivets? I haven't before heard this bit. Most of the photos of roman maille that I've seen are big, or more likely small, chumps of rust. Details of the rings are usually very hard to see. I'm making riveted maille using wedge rivets, just because this follows the instructions that I was able to find on the web, but I had always thought that the romans, like those of the early medieval period, used round rivets. Perhaps my maille is more accurate after all. To see an example, go to:

http://66.66.131.145/roman/maille_rivetedandsolid3.jpg

[Marcus Artorius Silvanus]

Everything I've read on Roman maille says round rivets...that the wedge shape didn't appear until the middle ages.

Not to mention as Neuraleanus said, all the pictures I've seen show what appears to be round rivets. And all the pictures I've seen of medieval armor show wedge rivets...except those from the east, which are round.

Anyone have any evidence one way or another?

[Marcus Artorius Silvanus]

Ave Neuraleanus;

That washer website you pointed me to...its perfect, it has ALL the sizes of washers, at a resonable price. Thanks for the link.

[caiusbeerquitius]

What literature did you consult? I have never seen any Roman chainmail from Raetia riveted with the mushroom-shaped rivets.

[Neuraleanus]

http://www.romanhideout.com/images/UK/S ... Hamata.jpg

The rivets are hard to see, but it's definitely riveted, and I think with alternating solid rings. Are the rivets round or wedge? I really can't tell, but the maille does appear very dense with small rings.

[GaiusManliusMagnus]

There's a nice riveted aventail on a Persian horse archer's helmet in the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art dated 2nd CBC that has round rivets. Tiny little ones on 3mm rings. I belive Bishop and Coulson says round rivets, too. I'll look it up.

[Emeraldweapon7d]

It seems like the wedge rivets are covered here. How do I do the round rivits?

[Neuraleanus]

Some people use bits of round steel wire for rivets. I haven't seen any detailed instructions for round rivets. Take a look at the photos at the riveted maille group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rivetedmaille/

Thee's a guy there making some viking maille using round mushroom shaped rivets. The bits of roman maille that I've seen do not appear to have rivets any where near as large as his.

[santell]

I believe Steve Sheldon used to use the big heavy pins you can buy at Walmart in the sewing department before he moved on to wedge rivets. I also remember reading round rivets were used on Roman pieces

[Emeraldweapon7d]

stupid question: is there anyplace in the U.S. that sells the carpenter's pliers like the ones in this article by Mr.Sheldon- http://www.forth-armoury.com/research/r ... maille.htm

[santell]

You can use tile nipper pliers available at any home depot for about 18 dollars(look in flooring and tiles). You just have to heat up the jaws and remove the carbide nipper tips and there you go!