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ROME IN THE WEST AND ATTILA
#1
Just saw this at:
"Academia.edu Weekly Digest"

TOWARDS THE END OF AN EMPIRE: ROME IN THE WEST AND ATTILA (425-455 AD).

It is part of a masters theses.  I didn't download it yet.
AKA Tom Chelmowski

Historiae Eruditere (if that is proper Latin)
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#2
Yeah I saw it too. I'm suspicious he ripped off the couple of drafts of my paper lingering on Academia looking at what he posted.
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#3
(02-14-2017, 03:46 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: Yeah I saw it too. I'm suspicious he ripped off the couple of drafts of my paper lingering on Academia looking at what he posted.

Why?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#4
(02-14-2017, 03:46 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: I'm suspicious he ripped off the couple of drafts of my paper

Since this is a Master's thesis, that's a fairly serious allegation. Unlikely though, I think - most universities run everything from undergrad coursework upwards through anti-plagarism software that checks the text against all online material and flags up similarities.
Nathan Ross
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#5
Because 1. I know he's read the drafts of my two chapters and 2. I've downloaded and read the two sections he has posted on Academia and you can see them for yourself. He's taken a couple of ideas from my draft of Chapter 6 and used it for his own in his own section on the Battle of Chalons.

I specifically labelled those drafts should not be used or referenced in any academic work because they're drafts.
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#6
(02-15-2017, 01:40 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: Because 1. I know he's read the drafts of my two chapters and 2. I've downloaded and read the two sections he has posted on Academia and you can see them for yourself. He's taken a couple of ideas from my draft of Chapter 6 and used it for his own in his own section on the Battle of Chalons.

I specifically labelled those drafts should not be used or referenced in any academic work because they're drafts.

Well, anyone is free to use the ideas of others. You did not publish them and yet you did (on Academia). But I would not go as far and say that he ripped you off.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#7
Quote:Well, anyone is free to use the ideas of others.

In the US you will get beat down in a heartbeat for plagiarism doing this. You cite every sentence or you don't write the paper and get a 0. That's the mentality over here.

Quote:You did not publish them and yet you did (on Academia). But I would not go as far and say that he ripped you off.

Yeah, which is why I haven't emailed the guy about it. I put them on Academia because I tried getting private feedback but almost nobody here or any of the people I emailed replied.

Honestly this book will never get published and printed so it will probably just be available for free on Academia.edu when I do finish it. I don't have the money to try and publish it.
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#8
Stick with your book Evan, hard work and research pays off in the end. I am always interested in your theories on the makeup of the Hunnic and Roman armies, their weaponry, armour, tactics and  leadership leading up to the battle of Chalons. Also I know you have been advocating for quite a few years that the Alans were not as unreliable allies to the Romans as some sources and modern writers have made out and were used quite frequently by Aetius to help keep a firm grip on Gaul. If I don't reply to your articles then it is because I don't think I have anything significant to add to other peoples' thoughts at the time. Smile
Regards

Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
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#9
(02-16-2017, 01:39 AM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: In the US you will get beat down in a heartbeat for plagiarism doing this. You cite every sentence or you don't write the paper and get a 0. That's the mentality over here.

I did not realise he used so much of your work. Verbatim? I would really contact him about that. I too have someone who 'used' my work, verbatim and not a small bit. he did not have the decency to mention me either. I know the feeling.

(02-16-2017, 01:39 AM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: Honestly this book will never get published and printed so it will probably just be available for free on Academia.edu when I do finish it. I don't have the money to try and publish it.

That's too bad! But you're still young, keep at it - it's not like this material has a sell by date. But I sympathize - it's especially sour when someone else does publish about it. How about starting with a condensed article in AW?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#10
(02-16-2017, 01:39 AM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: In the US you will get beat down in a heartbeat for plagiarism doing this.

Same in most places, I would think.

Maybe you should contact the author and ask for a full copy of the thesis? Then you can check the similarities. From what I can see, the sections on Academia comprise the first chapter - a general summary of the late Roman army developments, drawing on Elton et al - and the bibliography. The chapter subheading on Chalons uses the same Sidonius Apollinaris quote as your paper, which might show influence (to put it politely) but is hardy plagarism. It's surely unwise to be accusing somebody of this on a public forum without having read and checked the whole paper.
Nathan Ross
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#11
Quote:I did not realise he used so much of your work. Verbatim? I would really contact him about that. I too have someone who 'used' my work, verbatim and not a small bit. he did not have the decency to mention me either. I know the feeling.

I'm not saying that, but there are a couple things in it I came up with. He doesn't reiterate them verbatim.

Quote:That's too bad! But you're still young, keep at it - it's not like this material has a sell by date. But I sympathize - it's especially sour when someone else does publish about it. How about starting with a condensed article in AW?

Actually I tried that and they picked another author. They wouldn't take me for my proposal to write an article on Lance and Bow Warfare for their archery issue either.

Unfortunately there's no issue of Ancient Warfare in the next 2 years on Late Rome or anything remotely related to the Battle of the Catalaunian Fields.

Quote:The chapter subheading on Chalons uses the same Sidonius Apollinaris quote as your paper, which might show influence (to put it politely) but is hardy plagarism. It's surely unwise to be accusing somebody of this on a public forum without having read and checked the whole paper.

No it's not that, he took my suggestions on things like Aetius used tactics we see in the Strategikon, other little stuff I came up with.
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#12
(02-16-2017, 05:01 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: he took my suggestions on things like Aetius used tactics we see in the Strategikon, other little stuff I came up with.

I hadn't realised that the author had also posted up his chapter on Chalons as a separate document - my apologies!

However, I've read through it, and then read back through yours as a comparison. There are similarities, which isn't surprising as you're both describing the same battle using the same set of very limited evidence. His note on the Strategikon isn't as detailed as yours, and I don't think breaks any particularly new ground on the subject - but neither does there seem to be any direct quotation or copying. I believe Elton and others had already suggested the connection anyway, without going into any great depth.

But, as Robert says, it's understandable that you feel frustrated; I'm sure we all know the feeling to some extent. However, I do still think that accusing another writer of plagarism is taking things too far - unless you could cite direct verbatim quotation without attribution, or the use of some concrete material research. It could be damaging to his academic career as well, of course; even a whiff of something like that posted online can have a negative effect.

It's quite usual for anyone researching a subject to check any related material on Academia and elsewhere, so again it's not surprising that the author would have seen your own work. But, again following Robert, ideas are not copyright, and the past does not belong to any of us anyway!
Nathan Ross
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#13
Evan,

Don't get discouraged. You do have an option to publish your book once finished. Get it into PDF form, have someone edit for typos and errors, post your copyright after the title page, create a cover with Photoshop, and then go through CreateSpace. You can get MSWord templates, plain or formatted, from them at no charge. Correct-sized cover templates from CreateSpace are also free. The more you do yourself, the less you have to pay them. You can even make a page count, pick the book's size, and get your own ISBN number from Bowker (it does cost $125 as I recall). Or you can have CreateSpace get the ISBN at no charge, but they will be listed as the publisher.

What I'm saying is that a person with your knowledge and smarts can publish his own work. I've done it more than once... and I'm far less computer-literate than you are.

Go for it! Big Grin
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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