Saint Patrick & Names along the Antonine wall

[Nathan Ross]

he himself says that Latin is a "foreign language" and those that critique it call it "barbarous". So, the linguistic evidence shows Patrick WAS NOT born in Latin speaking Roman Britain.

I don't think this is what he means.

Confession, 9: "This is why I have long thought to write, but up to now I have hesitated, because I feared what people would say. This is because I did not learn as others did, who drank in equally well both the law and the sacred writings, and never had to change their way of speaking since childhood, but always grew better and better at it. For me, however, my speech and words have been translated into a foreign language, as it can be easily seen from my writings the standard of the instruction and learning I have had..."

Confession, 10:... "Now, in my old age, I want to do what I was unable to do in my youth. My sins then prevented me from really taking in what I read... I was taken prisoner as a youth, particularly young in the matter of being able to speak, and before I knew what I should seek and what I should avoid. That is why, today, I blush and am afraid to expose my lack of experience, because I can’t express myself with the brief words I would like in my heart and soul."

Patrick is saying (I think) that he is unable to express himself in Latin as well as he would like because at an early age he was taken prisoner and made to speak another language - meaning Irish.

He is quite clear that prior to his captivity he read and listened to Christian teachings, i.e. in Latin. His father and grandfather also had Latin names, and he was captured in a place with a Latin name too.


All of Patrick's writings, together with later biographies, can be found in translation here (including the letter to 'the soldiers of Coroticus' mentioned in this thread above: "I live as an alien among non-Roman peoples, an exile on account of the love of God"...)

The location where Patrick was born (Nemthur) is recorded in the black book of Carmarthen as the fortress of "Neutur"

It looks like this is the interpretation by William Forbes Skene in 1868: "Neutur, or Nevtur — is probably the same place mentioned by Fiech in his Life of St. Patrick, written in the eighth century, as Nemhtur or Nevtur. It is identified by his scholiast with Alclyde or Dumbarton."

'Probably' suggests that the original text itself does not make this connection, I think, and we are back to this anonymous 'scholiast' again.

What does the passage from 'The Black Book of Carmarthen' actually say?*


*Edit - it's online here.

The passage that Skene mentions (Dialogue of Myrddin and Taleisin line 1, stanza 3) goes as follows: Rac deuur ineutur ytirran. Rac errith. a gurrith y ar welugan.

According to the translation (which is apparently by Skene, confusingly!) this means "Before two men in battles they gather. Before Erith and Gwrith on pale horses."

However, a book from 1860 called Apostle of Ireland: The Life of St Patrick claims that Skene's transltion is: "Before two men in Nevtur will they land, Before Errith and Gurrith, on a pale white horse."

I have no way of knowing which of these translations is more accurate (does anyone?), but the first seems to make more sense - the horses are plural, for a start!