Saint Patrick & Names along the Antonine wall

[MonsGraupius]

those who think they know the truth and so distort the story to what they think it should be... those that amend details to make them fit in with what the author thought they ought to be.

Who does this?

Anyone who doesn't report the facts as they hear them like Nennius but instead reformulates the facts to fit the truth as they see it. When someone says "it is reported that" I believe them because they're not saying the original is true, only that they are reporting what others have said without knowing whether they are true.

But people who say "this is what happened" in the past, when they have no first hand knowledge and they don't in anyway say where they get their information from nor how credible it was they are being very dishonest and are likely embellishing the past to fit the truth as they see it.

That is why Nennius is a much more credible source than most others.

it's a 12th century manuscript.

That's pretty significantly 'post Roman'!
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And it pretty significantly before the authors who based on no evidence except their own personal opinions starting making up stories that Saint Patrick couldn't be born in Strathclyde when they knew that was what the earliest lives said.

Other authors have said that SUBDOBIADON matches Dunbarton and that MedionNemeton is a match for Nemthur.

Who are these 'other authors'?

One was in the statistical account, the other ... I can't remember. But it's hardly surprising that others had spotted what is so obvious.

It's also speculation that there were no other sources.

That is a real ouroboros of an argument!

In the face of clear historical evidence for Strathclyde, it is you who needs strong evidence to prove it wasn't Strathclyde. You've not even produced the weakest argument.

But when I simply turn around your own arguments "it's only one source" ... you start complaining that I'm being too hard on you despite the fact its you that's arguing against the historical evidence.

We're told he wasn't.

Wasn't what? Born in Roman Britain? We have a medieval commentary on one source that says he was from Dumbarton, and another medieval source, probably based on that one, that says he was from Strathclyde (a place that did not exist during his lifetime). That doesn't seem all that 'historical' to me... But I don't think we can say either way.

The earliest evidence we have is for Strathclyde. There is NO evidence for anywhere else.

Roman coin evidence that proves a community with Roman links right through the time of the Roman empire. The evidence proves a community with Roman links existed.

What evidence is this? All I can see in the paper you quoted are a handful of 4th century coins (all but one or two early 4th century) from the general vicinity. As you know caches of Roman coins have been found in China. This does not demonstrate the existence of a 'community with Roman links'.

Robinson shows coins from the 1st to the 4th century with an INCREASING number in Strathclyde.

And your evidence for this is what? ... CONTRARY to the historical evidence.

I have already given the contemporary literary evidence for the relatively mild persecution in Britain and Gaul under Constantius I.

So you admit persecution, you admit Christians had missionaries, you admit there were inter sect disputes, you admit Christians may be traders who came to Strathclyde.

Basically you admit it is perfectly possible Patrick was born in Strathclyde.

What 'historical evidence' have I contradicted?

I'm not asking you to jump through any impossible rhetorical hoops here - I'm just suggesting that if you put forward definite theories (and especially if you dismiss all other theories as 'nonsense' - laughable' - 'ridiculous' - 'rubbish' - 'crap' etc, as you have done) then your ideas should meet certain very basic standards of historical scrutiny. The first of which being that you can support your ideas with firm evidence, and also that the sources you are quoting say what you claim they say.

The historical evidence that says Patrick was born in Strathclyde.