Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Call for Sources: Extant Scale and Lamellar with Fabric/Hide Intact
#1
Hi guys,

  two years ago, I put together a call for suggestions of finds of scale and lamellar armour with their soft parts intact.  Anywhere west of India and up to late antiquity is of interest, I define my terms in the announcement.

https://bookandsword.files.wordpress.com...ur_1_1.pdf

Please share this to your communities!  I am not smart about FB groups, subreddits, twitter hashtags, and what not ... no time!  Unfortunately, the newsletter of the Association for Roman Military Equipment Studies has dried up, and I don't know where classical archaeologists hang out online.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply
#2
You need to talk to Nadeem Ahmad.
Reply
#3
Contact our colleague from Čačak Museum about Jelica find (VI century). It is on conservation now as far as I know.
vujadinovicvujadinatgmaildotcom
Mentioned remains of hide in Jelica catalogue on page 200, cat. nr. 403.
https://www.academia.edu/attachments/535...&s=profile
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
Reply
#4
(03-02-2019, 04:36 PM)Arahne Wrote: Contact our colleague from Čačak Museum about Jelica find (VI century). It is on conservation now as far as I know.
vujadinovicvujadinatgmaildotcom
Mentioned remains of hide in Jelica catalogue on page 200, cat. nr. 403.
https://www.academia.edu/attachments/535...&s=profile

Thanks Stefan, I have sent emails to the museum and to Nadeem Ahmad.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply
#5
What about the golyamata mogila cuirass?

https://www.academia.edu/12392747/The_Tu..._Chapter_I
Reply
#6
Its on the list between Gordion, Turkey and Vize/Bizye, Turkey.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply
#7
(05-21-2019, 10:47 PM)Sean Manning Wrote: Its on the list between Gordion, Turkey and Vize/Bizye, Turkey.

Just an observation on the Dura finds, there is a fairly large corpus of leather items from the site though it hasn't been published as such to my knowledge other then items on the yale site:

71 items in this search but there are I believe more in other museum collections...
https://artgallery.yale.edu/collection/s...%20leather

449 items...
https://artgallery.yale.edu/collection/s...a%20bronze

23 items...
https://artgallery.yale.edu/collection/s...ura%20iron

No actual leather scales...
https://artgallery.yale.edu/collection/s...%20leather

2 items of leather armour...
https://artgallery.yale.edu/collection/s...lar%20dura

Given that none of these appear to be leather scale armour other then the leg defences? (which could be Sassanian given the location) is it at least possible that the Romans (or any others at Dura) were not using purely leather scale armour since there are apparantly no other finds at Dura, where given the reasonably good survival rate for leather and the large amounts of scale armour found you may expect to find some....

The site in recent years has been robbed out by the way so it seems unlikely anything new will surface....

Not Written in Stone Wink
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#8
Different kinds of hide product have very different survival rates, and hide scales are often rawhide whose survival rate is pretty near zero. So we have heavy, tanned leather calligae but not the ?tawed? leather straps which articulated iron manicae and lorica segmentata. Therefore I would not read the absence of evidence as evidence of absence, especially because Roman Army Studies scholars and reenactors often do the reverse and assume that all ancient armour looked like the iron, bronze, and brass kinds which they see in reports (my favourite example: the big brass needles in pewter or brass cases which medieval reenactors love, but also survive in the ground better than other solutions and are easy to spot in digs ... brass cases are the vast majority of the finds, but I doubt that they were in the vast majority of sewing baskets).

Since I wrote the call for sources in 2017, I have gained access to James' Dura book, and the published version will talk about it in more detail. I don't remember whether the rawhide-and-stick shields were from the collapsed tower like the horse trappers and the cuisses.

Also, the scales and lamellar from Dura are a lot of catalogue entries, but I seem to recall that James thought most of them came from a very small number of armours which were in a fragile condition when found and were not well conserved (they are still decaying, I would like to see them as soon as possible but that costs money and CO2). So the long list of catalogue entries might just tell us about 2 or 3 armours.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  scale/lamellar armour SAJID 7 1,851 05-19-2017, 12:25 PM
Last Post: Flavivs Aetivs
  Lamellar vs. Scale Armour Eleatic Guest 5 2,542 04-17-2015, 01:23 PM
Last Post: Dan Howard
  Intact Roman vexillum from Egypt DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS 36 8,147 03-10-2014, 08:57 PM
Last Post: Titvs Statilivs Castvs

Forum Jump: