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New find of lorica segmentata
#1
The Varusschlacht museum at Kalkriese have just streamed a press conference on Facebook announcing the discovery of a near-complete Kalkriase-type lorica segmentata from a pit. Unfortunately, the quality of the streaming (hand-held on a phone in portrait format) wasn't brilliant. It appeared to have no lesser shoulder guards (the upper shoulder guards are the same crescentic ones we've seen before), leading them to describe the upper part as a Halsgeige ('neck violin'). Doubtless all will become clear once more info hits the media.

Mike Bishop

(09-25-2020, 08:44 AM)mcbishop Wrote: The Varusschlacht museum at Kalkriese have just streamed a press conference on Facebook announcing the discovery of a near-complete Kalkriase-type lorica segmentata from a pit. Unfortunately, the quality of the streaming (hand-held on a phone in portrait format) wasn't brilliant. It appeared to have no lesser shoulder guards (the upper shoulder guards are the same crescentic ones we've seen before), leading them to describe the upper part as a Halsgeige ('neck violin'). Doubtless all will become clear once more info hits the media.

Mike Bishop
Here's a link to some photos of the find and a reconstruction. Huge relief to see that I was right in predicting buckles to fasten the girth hoops!

Mike Bishop
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles

Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
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#2
Hi,
...i have to admit I'm puzzled. I thought the "halsgeige" was rather referring to a piece of metal found herewith to be used to tie a persons arms to his neck. A kind of shackles.  Huh

https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/Roemischer-Schienenpanzer-in-Kalkriese-entdeckt,kalkriese446.html

Here they are reasoning, whether the bearer had been shackled.

Greez   

Simplex
Siggi K.
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#3
Yes, me misunderstanding what they said. The press conference was difficult to hear and see. There is now a much clearer Projekt Schienenpanzer video on YouTube.

Mike Bishop
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles

Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
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#4
Thanks for that link.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
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#5
Its not entirely clear to me but the armour doesnt look like it was being worn as its concertinaed, so this may be a deposit in which a set shackles were also included?
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#6
Computer animation: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersac...se434.html
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#7
Very interesting thanks for sharing
tha animation will be online only until 1 st October so hurry up if you want to see it
shoulder plate is definitely very small in the reconstruction exposing upper arm.
-----------------
Gelu I.
www.terradacica.ro
www.porolissumsalaj.ro
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#8
Quote:Kaum archäologische Funde einer Rüstung
Schienenpanzer sind eine aus mehreren Metallplatten zusammengesetzte Rüstung, die den Oberkörper römischer Legionäre schützen sollte. Obwohl der Schienenpanzer lange zur festen Ausstattung der römischen Armee gehörte, gibt es bislang kaum archäologische Funde. In Nordengland wurden in der Vergangenheit sechs Hälften eines Schienenpanzers gefunden, die allerdings aus dem 2. Jahrhundert n. Chr. stammen und damit mehr als 100 Jahre jünger sind als der Fund aus Kalkriese.

do not understand this line in the article link. Why not find any archaeological evidence about LS?
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#9
(10-04-2020, 02:32 AM)Leoshenlong Wrote:
Quote:Kaum archäologische Funde einer Rüstung
Schienenpanzer sind eine aus mehreren Metallplatten zusammengesetzte Rüstung, die den Oberkörper römischer Legionäre schützen sollte. Obwohl der Schienenpanzer lange zur festen Ausstattung der römischen Armee gehörte, gibt es bislang kaum archäologische Funde. In Nordengland wurden in der Vergangenheit sechs Hälften eines Schienenpanzers gefunden, die allerdings aus dem 2. Jahrhundert n. Chr. stammen und damit mehr als 100 Jahre jünger sind als der Fund aus Kalkriese.

do not understand this line in the article link.  Why not find any archaeological evidence about LS?

Hi,
...in essence this means that there are no finds of LS contemporary to that one. There are , however (few) contemporary depictions if I remember correctly , but actual finds have been dated to times much later on. Ross Cowans words here : https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2004/2004.02.49/   (although from as early as 2004) give a good overview and I would suggest reading that one too : http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1/student_p...ented.html . Yes, and of course Dr. Bishop is another one of the guys "in the know"."Roman Military Equipment -- From The Punic Wars To The Fall Of Rome" (At least 2nd Ed.) written together with Jon Coulston is the "opus magnum" on that subject  . 
Unfortunately I'm temporarily out of a link for that. Maybe he could chime in here.

Hope that helps.

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
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#10
There are examples of some of the fittings that pre-date the Kalkriese finds (9 AD). The first place where it seems to have occurred is at Dangstetten, which site has been dated to 9 BC. What was always lacking was the information as to how the girdle plates were closed. We now have that information. Mike Bishop is to be congratulated on seeing that this arrangement of the girdle plate closure was highly possible, given that the single upper chest guard from Kalkriese had fastenings that were directly riveted to the plate. Good one, Sir!

Caratacus
(Dr Mike Thomas)
visne scire quod credam? credo orbes volantes exstare.
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#11
I don't think a soldier died due to shackles. Because the archaeological evidence shows no human skeleton. maybe only armor and shackles
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#12
(10-13-2020, 02:14 AM)Leoshenlong Wrote: I don't think a soldier died due to shackles. Because the archaeological evidence shows no human skeleton. maybe only armor and shackles

It is more than likely that the bones etc vanished naturally over the past 2000 years.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#13
(10-18-2020, 03:29 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote:
(10-13-2020, 02:14 AM)Leoshenlong Wrote: I don't think a soldier died due to shackles. Because the archaeological evidence shows no human skeleton. maybe only armor and shackles

It is more than likely that the bones etc vanished naturally over the past 2000 years.
Over 2000 years human bones have disappeared?  I know there are very old skeletons but intact. they found 2,000-year-old human burial pits with the skeleton still visible
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#14
(10-19-2020, 01:51 AM)Leoshenlong Wrote:
(10-18-2020, 03:29 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote:
(10-13-2020, 02:14 AM)Leoshenlong Wrote: I don't think a soldier died due to shackles. Because the archaeological evidence shows no human skeleton. maybe only armor and shackles

It is more than likely that the bones etc vanished naturally over the past 2000 years.
Over 2000 years human bones have disappeared?  I know there are very old skeletons but intact. they found 2,000-year-old human burial pits with the skeleton still visible

Its entirely dependent on the ground conditions as to whether or not organic materials survive for such a long period of time, a lack of bones does not mean a lack of bodies!.
For this you would have to check the archeaology of the particular deposit, but there may still be no certain evidence one way or the other...

Wink
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#15
(10-19-2020, 07:36 AM)Crispianus Wrote:
(10-19-2020, 01:51 AM)Leoshenlong Wrote:
(10-18-2020, 03:29 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote:
(10-13-2020, 02:14 AM)Leoshenlong Wrote: I don't think a soldier died due to shackles. Because the archaeological evidence shows no human skeleton. maybe only armor and shackles

It is more than likely that the bones etc vanished naturally over the past 2000 years.
Over 2000 years human bones have disappeared?  I know there are very old skeletons but intact. they found 2,000-year-old human burial pits with the skeleton still visible

Its entirely dependent on the ground conditions as to whether or not organic materials survive for such a long period of time, a lack of bones does not mean a lack of bodies!.
For this you would have to check the archeaology of the particular deposit, but there may still be no certain evidence one way or the other...

Wink
My opinion is like yours. I don't feel like someone wearing armor, it's buried with shackles
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