Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Seniores and Iuniores (again)
#1
Here is something that has been puzzling me for a while. Most discussions about the Seniores-Iuniores issue, whether here or in the scholarly papers of the likes of Hoffmann, start off with the basic assumptions that there are more Iuniores units in the East than in the West and that some big event, a sort of Big Bang of the 4th century army, is the origin of this division.

Now, it had never struck me as obvious that the Eastern lists of the Notitia contain more Iuniores than the Western so I did a bit of adding up.
In the East there are 23 regiments identified as Seniores, 25 as Iuniores and 109 as neither.
In the West, these figures are, very neatly, 42 Seniores, 42 Iuniores and 84 neither.

The key points here are that there are fewer Iuniores in the East than in the West, and that in the East the numbers of Seniores and Iuniores are almost the same.

Looking at the 25 regiments of Eastern Iuniores I found that 13 have a corresponding Seniores in the East, 4 don't seem to have any Seniores equivalent at all and 8 (eight) have a Seniores in the West. In other words all these debates about why the split between Seniores in the West and Iuniores in the East seems to be founded on eight examples out of over 300 units in the field armies! 

These eight examples can be further divided into five where there is simply a Western Seniores and an Eastern Iuniores, and three where there is also a Iuniores in the West. The five regiments in the first category are the famous Legiones Palatinae of the Ioviani and Herculiani, the Auxilia Palatina of the Petulantes and the Invicti and the case of the Pannoniciani where there is an Eastern Legio Comitatenses with the Iuniores suffix as well as the Western Legio Palatina. The three in the second category are two cavalry units, the Equites Brachiati and Batavi, and one Auxilia Palatina, the Brachiati.

The first thing that springs to mind on seeing these names is that most of these regiments are very senior. The Ioviani-Herculiani in their Seniores iteration are the two most senior Palatine legions in the West and the Iuniores versions rank behind only the Lanciari-Mattiari in the East. Similarly the Brachiati and Petulantes are ranked second and third of the 64 Auxilia Palatina in the West and the two Equites units are equally prestigious. A second point is that some of these units seem to have lost their "twins", so there is no Celtae Iuniores to accompany the Petulantes, no Cornuti Iuniores to accompany the Brachiati and no Felices for the Invicti. 

There are perhaps a few other examples of Eastern units which may in some way be "off-shoots" of Western ones despite not having the Iuniores suffix and which could then be added to this small list. The Salii-Tubantes pair appear in both West and East without any further precision. As they are named after Frankish tribes it could be assumed that the Western pair are senior, though it is also possible that the first-raised pair were sent East and replaced in the Western army by a second draft. As mentioned above there is no Cornuti Iuniores in the East (there is one in the West though) but there is a Cornuti without the Iuniores name and it is, as one would expect, paired with the Brachiati Iuniores in the Eastern praesental army. Possibly this Cornuti was not given the Iuniores suffix because it already had an additional name to distinguish it from its Western counterparts; the "Iovi" Cornuti as found in the 356 inscription.

As far as dating goes, it has already been discussed in an earlier thread here that the Iovi Cornuti Iuniores inscription proves Hoffmann wrong in his suggestion that the existence of Iuniores regiments dates from Naissus 364. However the Notitia itself also provides evidence that the first Iuniores date from much earlier. In the Eastern praesental army lists the Ioviani Iuniores are ranked above all the other Legiones Palatinae except the Lanciarii-Mattiari Seniores. Assuming that Legions were given Palatine status when they were incorporated into this army, this suggests that the Iovani Iuniores were part of the praesental army from the time it was created. When this was is of course open to debate but it must date at the latest to the division of power after the death of Constantine I in  337 when his three sons divided up the Empire and, presumably, the army between them. The Auxilia Palatina section of the same army list gives further confirmation that Iuniores regiments existed already around 337-40. In fourth place in the two Praesental lists we find a pair of Auxilia called the Constantiani and the Constantiniani. I would suggest that these two were raised by Constantius and were named after his two brothers, and fellow Augustae, Constans and Constantine II. As Constantine II only reigned from 337-40 this would imply that these two units were raised in this short timeframe and that any units preceding them in the army lists were already in existence at this time, including the Brachiati Iuniores.

In summary, the evidence from the Notitia suggests that the idea of an East-West Seniores-Iuniores split is based on a very small number of "high profile" cases which are better examined individually and that the existence of Iuniores regiments goes back at least as far as the joint reigns of the three sons of Constantine I. 

I will post later my thoughts on what may have happened at Naissus in 364. In the meantime fire away!
Reply
#2
I suppose we should add to the above list the Divitenses and Tungrecani Iuniores mentionned by Ammianus in the context of the revolt of Procopius in 365. There is no trace of these in the Notitia so presumably they were disbanded or renamed after the failure of this revolt.

Cordialement

Le Colonel
Reply
#3
(12-08-2020, 12:03 PM)Colonel Chabert Wrote: In the Eastern praesental army lists the Ioviani Iuniores are ranked above all the other Legiones Palatinae except the Lanciarii-Mattiari Seniores. Assuming that Legions were given Palatine status when they were incorporated into this army, this suggests that the Iovani Iuniores were part of the praesental army from the time it was created.

These are all strong suggestions, I think, although so much about the structure of the late army remains frustratingly opaque!

It might be possible that the Ioviani Iuniores were named in this way some time after their original split from the Seniores though - in other words, the identification as seniores and iuniores was a post-hoc rationalisation of a division in effect for some time already, and the units kept their original relative status in the army lists.

There's also the problem that the Ioviani would appear, from the name alone, to have been raised by Diocletian...

(I'm still trying to believe that the Numerus Ioviorum Cornutorum Seniorum mentioned on the Flavius Aemilianus tombstone was actually the Numerus Equitum Cornutorum Seniorum!)


(12-08-2020, 12:03 PM)Colonel Chabert Wrote: the evidence from the Notitia suggests that the idea of an East-West Seniores-Iuniores split is based on a very small number of "high profile" cases which are better examined individually and that the existence of Iuniores regiments goes back at least as far as the joint reigns of the three sons of Constantine I.

Yes, that sounds right too. I would think it more likely that the seniores/iuniores division was phased in gradually, and only later acquired the more regular form we see in the ND, rather than being set up in one great military reorganisation at a single moment. But - as I say - so much of this is totally obscure.
Nathan Ross
Reply
#4
Hi Nathan,

Thanks for the reply.

(12-11-2020, 11:42 AM)Nathan Ross Wrote: There's also the problem that the Ioviani would appear, from the name alone, to have been raised by Diocletian...

Well, not necessarily. My understanding is that Diocletian raised the legions I Iovia and V Iovia and then extracted elements from one or both to create the unit known as the Ioviani Seniores. The Ioviani Iuniores may have been the result of a second, later draft on these same legions. In this case the name Ioviani would come from the parent legion and not from the Emperor responsible for the draft.
I think it was you who put forward in a previous thread the idea of successive drafts on a same parent unit to explain why different new units might have the same or similar names. This seems to me a very likely scenario.
Reply
#5
(12-11-2020, 03:16 PM)Colonel Chabert Wrote: In this case the name Ioviani would come from the parent legion and not from the Emperor responsible for the draft.

Ah yes, quite so.

I was actually thinking, for some reason, of the Auxilia Palatina unit called the Iovii Iuniores. The problem here is quite different, as it suggests that auxilia units were being raised by Diocletian!

But that does not affect your current thinking.
Nathan Ross
Reply
#6
Nathan wrote:
It might be possible that the Ioviani Iuniores were named in this way some time after their original split from the Seniores though.
 
Would it be an equal split? For example, the size of the Ioviani consisted of 50% iuniores and 50% seniores? After the split, wouldn’t the size of the iuniores and seniores have to be large to be effective?
Reply
#7
(12-11-2020, 09:17 PM)Steven James Wrote: Would it be an equal split? For example, the size of the Ioviani consisted of 50% iuniores and 50% seniores? After the split, wouldn’t the size of the iuniores and seniores have to be large to be effective?

The split between the Ioviani Seniores and Iuniores (or any other seniores/iuniores pair) could be explained as:


a) an original parent unit divided into two parts, equal or otherwise. Each part could either be expanded to the size of the original, or not.

b) a cadre drawn from the original 'seniores' unit expanded into a 'iuniores' unit, of the same size or smaller.

c) two successive detachments drawn from an original unit (perhaps one of the Legiones Iovia, in this case).

d) two units raised entirely separately but given iterations of the same name, rather like the old Legio I / Legio II etc.


I don't think we currently have enough evidence to assess the likelihood of any of these options. But I don't think there's any reason to assume that the pre-divided units in the case of options a) or b) themselves originally consisted of both seniores and iuniores combined.
Nathan Ross
Reply
#8
Nathan wrote:
The split between the Ioviani Seniores and Iuniores (or any other seniores/iuniores pair) could be explained as: (a) an original parent unit divided into two parts, equal or otherwise. Each part could either be expanded to the size of the original, or not.
 
Thanks Nathan, that makes perfect sense to me and something I had not considered (expanding the size of the units after detaching). Your reputation rating has another positive.
Reply
#9
How does this reputation thing work? I notice that I've now got one (thanks, Nathan!) but can I give them out as well or do you require a certain "seniority" for that?
Reply
#10
(12-13-2020, 12:16 PM)Colonel Chabert Wrote: How does this reputation thing work?

You should see a little button on the side panel of each post called 'Rate' - that allows you add a rating. But maybe you need to have posted a certain numebr of times before you get that option?
Nathan Ross
Reply
#11
Ah yes, I see the little button. I didn't realise that was linked to the reputation.

Thanks
Reply
#12
One caveat about the Notitia.
It was written sometime between 390AD and 450AD.
Many units may simply have been destroyed, amalgamated, disbanded or simply not recorded for one reason or another. It's a good reference for potentially most of the units existing at the time the document was written but not for the period before or after.
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
Reply
#13
(12-14-2020, 06:54 PM)ValentinianVictrix Wrote: It's a good reference for potentially most of the units existing at the time the document was written

That would be a very generous interpretation, I think.

I rather suspect that the Notitia Dig as it comes down to us today does not record any one single moment in time, but a kaleidoscope of bits and pieces from around fifty years of Roman history.
Nathan Ross
Reply
#14
That's why I said 'at the time the document was written' ie between 395 and 450AD.
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
Reply
#15
(12-14-2020, 06:54 PM)ValentinianVictrix Wrote: It's a good reference for potentially most of the units existing at the time the document was written but not for the period before or after.

I think this is unnecessarily restrictive. If Ammianus tells us about a unit in 357 and we find the same unit in the Notitia in 395 then that is prima facie evidence that the unit existed in the time period 357-395. Of course it is possible that the unit was destroyed and then reformed or disbanded and reformed within this period but if there is no evidence that this happened then we are just inventing things.
The continuity and survivability of Roman units over long periods of time is, I think, one of the more astonishing things about the Roman army. There are a number of legions created by Julius Caesar and revived shortly afterwards by Octavian that are still attested in the Notitia almost 450 years later. Even within the timeframe of the 4th century the senior western units fought innumerable actions against the Germans, went to Persia and back and suffered defeat in one civil war after another and yet at the end of the century they are still there (at least on paper!).
It is surely noteworthy that of all the the units mentionned in Ammianus' history a large majority are still in existence at the time of the Notitia. There are very few unexplained absences (the Primani of Strasbourg fame being perhaps one) which does not suggest that Roman units tended to "come and go".
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Late Roman Army - seniores and iuniores Robert Vermaat 46 20,931 10-15-2020, 10:16 PM
Last Post: Steven James
  Two Batavi Iuniores? Liam Boyle 2 1,360 07-31-2017, 07:59 PM
Last Post: Nathan Ross
  Hoffmann and the Seniores - Iuniores Holtingar 23 6,228 10-19-2010, 04:11 PM
Last Post: D B Campbell

Forum Jump: