A History of the Idea of Glued Linen Armour

[Feinman]

Pliny was wrong about lots of things and this is another one. Vinegar is a fabric SOFTENER - the complete opposite of a fabric stiffener. Mixing vinegar with salt produces hydrochloric acid and sodium acetate. Hydrochloric acid degrades the fibres in textiles, which weakens the material, so it would be pretty silly to apply it to cloth armour.

Yeah, that does seem like a silly idea. It might help to get the fibers to stick together in some kind of felting, but there is no evidence for it, and I doubt it would work better than using pieces of woven fabric --so none of the vinegar / wine stuff makes sense. I just hope some bits and pieces turn up --very frustrating, as reconstructions are expensive and it's basically flying in the dark.

[Crispianus]

Pliny was wrong about lots of things and this is another one. Vinegar is a fabric SOFTENER - the complete opposite of a fabric stiffener. Mixing vinegar with salt produces hydrochloric acid and sodium acetate. Hydrochloric acid degrades the fibres in textiles, which weakens the material, so it would be pretty silly to apply it to cloth armour.

Yeah, that does seem like a silly idea.  It might help to get the fibers to stick together in some kind of felting, but there is no evidence for it, and I doubt it would work better than using pieces of woven fabric --so none of the vinegar / wine stuff makes sense.  I just hope some bits and pieces turn up --very frustrating, as reconstructions are expensive and it's basically flying in the dark.

Here it is:

" It was not yet high noon when missiles were discharged, the two
armies charged, and the infantry forces advanced and engaged in
pitched battle. When the sun was ablaze in the zenith and the signal for
battle was given, Conrad, with his purple-dyed emblem imprinted on his
and his troops' arms, was first to move. He fought then without a
shield, and in lieu of a coat of mail he wore a woven linen fabric that
had been steeped in a strong brine of wine and folded many times. So
hard and compact had it become from the salt and wine that it was
impervious to all missiles; the folds of the woven stuff numbered more
than eighteen. "

From: O City of Byzantium


I think as far as Pliny is concerned the reference is wrong, as it refers to a different method of dyeing fleece by the gauls and parthians with no details given, though the passage does go on to say something in regard to felted fleece treated with vinegar being resistant to iron and fire... which is clearly not valid, salt is not mentioned.
In any case we use vinegar normally in the wash as a stain remover...

[Dan Howard]

Pliny was wrong about lots of things and this is another one. Vinegar is a fabric SOFTENER - the complete opposite of a fabric stiffener. Mixing vinegar with salt produces hydrochloric acid and sodium acetate. Hydrochloric acid degrades the fibres in textiles, which weakens the material, so it would be pretty silly to apply it to cloth armour.

Yeah, that does seem like a silly idea.  It might help to get the fibers to stick together in some kind of felting, but there is no evidence for it, and I doubt it would work better than using pieces of woven fabric --so none of the vinegar / wine stuff makes sense.  I just hope some bits and pieces turn up --very frustrating, as reconstructions are expensive and it's basically flying in the dark.

Here it is:

" It was not yet high noon when missiles were discharged, the two
armies charged, and the infantry forces advanced and engaged in
pitched battle. When the sun was ablaze in the zenith and the signal for
battle was given, Conrad, with his purple-dyed emblem imprinted on his
and his troops' arms, was first to move. He fought then without a
shield, and in lieu of a coat of mail he wore a woven linen fabric that
had been steeped in a strong brine of wine and folded many times. So
hard and compact had it become from the salt and wine that it was
impervious to all missiles; the folds of the woven stuff numbered more
than eighteen. "

Sounds like another dodgy translation to me. What does it say in the original language?

In any case we use vinegar normally in the wash as a stain remover...

Vinegar has been used for centuries as a fabric softener. It is actually recommended by some modern washing machine manufacturers as a substitute for commercial fabric softeners because it doesn't leave a gooey residue that can build up and damage the machine.

[Crispianus]

"Sounds like another dodgy translation to me. What does it say in the original language?"

See the note on the translation pg XXIX. Unfortunatly I don't have an original (was amazed to find this translation online) wouldn't do me much good if I did.
I suspect though that it may be a case of "Lost in Translation"...
You can almost imagine the original description of the work by an artisan to an author, maybe compound that by repeating it a few times through various intermediary's.


I've also used Salt for removing copious amount of dried blood from clothing... gets rid of the smell too

[Hanny]

If its of any relevance I just came came across a reference for stiffening Linen in "Wearing the cloak" pg47:

"Nicetas Acominatos in a book written c.Ad 1204-1210 describes the crusader's way of making a linen garment more protective against weapons by treating it with a mixture of Vinegar and salt. This recipe is in agreement with Pliny the Elder who mentions the gauls and parthians used vinegar for stiffening wool."(Plin. NHVIII 192)

And going back further https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mIaY...bo&f=false  page 277. Here* they use rabit glue https://jhupress.wordpress.com/2013/04/2...our-lives/ and again here with some rudimentary testing of its protection. http://hvitr.blogspot.com/2015/08/linoth...tiles.html

First link* has a book to accompany the research, and why, what for, vinegar was used in the process. http://elbdisliker.at.ua/TermBallInd/ixk1d-bytnt.pdf

Pliny http://penelope.uchicago.edu/holland/pliny8.html
CHAP. XLVIII.
Divers kinds of wooll and clothes.

"Moreover, wool of it selfe driven togither into a felt without spinning or weaving, serveth to make garments with: and if vinegre be used in the working therof, such felts are of good proofe to bere off the edge and point of the sword; yea and more than that, they will checke the force of the fire."

[Sean Manning]

If its of any relevance I just came came across a reference for stiffening Linen in "Wearing the cloak" pg47:

"Nicetas Acominatos in a book written c.Ad 1204-1210 describes the crusader's way of making a linen garment more protective against weapons by treating it with a mixture of Vinegar and salt. This recipe is in agreement with Pliny the Elder who mentions the gauls and parthians used vinegar for stiffening wool."(Plin. NHVIII 192)

And going back further https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mIaY...bo&f=false  page 277. Here* they use rabit glue https://jhupress.wordpress.com/2013/04/2...our-lives/ and again here with some rudimentary testing of its protection. http://hvitr.blogspot.com/2015/08/linoth...tiles.html

First link* has a book to accompany the research, and why, what for, vinegar was used in the process. http://elbdisliker.at.ua/TermBallInd/ixk1d-bytnt.pdf

Pliny http://penelope.uchicago.edu/holland/pliny8.html
CHAP. XLVIII.
Divers kinds of wooll and clothes.

"Moreover, wool of it selfe driven togither into a felt without spinning or weaving, serveth to make garments with: and if vinegre be used in the working therof, such felts are of good proofe to bere off the edge and point of the sword; yea and more than that, they will checke the force of the fire."

What do you mean by "going back further"?

The original journal article has the passage by Niketas Akominatos in Greek and two English translations. This informal summary has my English translation.

The original article and the online summary explain how Larcher was mistranslating a French summary of various ancient and medieval sources.

As the online summary explains:

Most people interested in the ancient world have heard that ancient Greek warriors wore armour of layers of linen cloth glued together. In 2013, a group of researchers in the United States (Aldrete et al.) showed that there was no known archaeological or written evidence for this.

When Peter Connolly promoted the theory in the 1970s, there was no published fragment of glued linen armour, no ancient text linking linen armour and glue, and no other culture which made armour that way. So where did the theory come from?

If you read Aldrete et al's book carefully (and check some obscure footnotes), you can see the lack of evidence for the use of glue. It is unfortunate that many people who read their book or see their demonstrations come away with the impression that this is a plausible theory.

[Sean Manning]

Until I published this article, some scholars knew about the medieval armour in Niketas Akominatos, and many people knew about the glued linen armour in Peter Connolly, but there was no way to connect the two. Akominatos mentions salt and wine but not glue, and Connolly mentions glue but not salt or wine. My article shows how the glue appeared as Akominatos was summarized in French, then translated into English, then summarized again. It also shows how other medieval and early modern sources describe cloth armour made in a different way.

Then I define four criteria which any interpretation of the armour with the shoulder flaps needs to meet, and list methods which meet those criteria. The glue theory fails one of the criteria.

[Hanny]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, those in favour of the use of glue in the production process do so from the incomplete production process being recorded, and pictorials showing the process done in the home, so not a complicated process, just as Greek plays masks, and Egyptian mummification prob used glue and linen to get the effect they were after, and re production shows glue and vinegar etc, does have a place in the production process and were all common elements in common use, so on balance it’s a prob it was used. Internet is full of books translating the use of glue in linen production for shields, and for linen armour that predate the example of the translations already given, so for me is not a very good reason to doubt its use.

[Sean Manning]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, those in favour of the use of glue in the production process do so from the incomplete production process being recorded, ...

Peter Connolly explains his basis for the theory, can you show us you have read it? (But as the article and linked summary explain, he actually got it from earlier summaries of a mistranslation of a French summary of a medieval chronicle written in Greek).

The only production process for linen armour in an ancient text which I have seen is the armour which Pharaoh Amasis dedicated in a Greek sanctuary. This armour was woven from thick threads.

and pictorials showing the process done in the home, ...

Which pictures? The researchers from the Midwest could not find any pictures of ancient linen armour being made.

so not a complicated process, just as Greek plays masks, and Egyptian mummification prob used glue and linen to get the effect they were after, ...

Could you show us that you have read the article and what it says about the materials which Egyptologists say were used in those mummy masks?

Internet is full of books translating the use of glue ... for linen armour that predate the example of the translations already given

Could you give examples? The book by Larcher does not mention glue, it mentions the 'felting' process in Niketas Akominatos (who died in the 13th century CE and describes armour in the 12th century CE!) And Pierre Henri Larcher seems to have died in 1812- are there any other sciences where you would rely on a reference book published in 1812?

There has been a lot of misinformation on this subject, so its very important to go back and check what can actually be traced back to specific sources and what is just something people say. I used to believe Peter Connolly invented the "glued linen" theory, but he was actually copying reference books from the 19th century which failed to find and read their sources.

[Hanny]

Yes there is a lot of dis information, and you are helping that along very nicely.

[Feinman]

If they had the magic glue..
The ancients didn't have magic waterproof rubberized glue. The reason that Egyptian cartonnage used animal glues and calcite or gypsum was to stiffen the material so it could be moulded into forms that could be painted; it would be useless as a glue for layers of linen for armour, and would instantly crack if used that way. The warrior would end up with a powdery multilayered mess.
If they had the magic glue, then the cartonnage materials the Egyptian used would be instantly discarded, in favor of the magic glue. The ancients had animal glues; these are useless for gluing layers of linen together and has been and is still used to seal the fibers of linen canvases so they aren't oxidized by the oil priming in traditional oil painting. Hide glue was used to construct plank shields in Egypt and in other cultures for wood shields and other woodwork, but if used on a fabric meant to be worn, it will quickly putrefy, and mold --it is ideal to grow microbes on.
If they had the magic glue, they wouldn't have bothered developing all of the other techniques that create heavier armour, such as quilting or twining.
If they had the magic glue, it would have shown up in more applications than just mummy masks --it would be useful for many things, including waterproofing.
I think it is possible that some of the liquid concoctions mentioned in the old texts might be describing ways to tighten up the weave of the linen fabrics used to stuff the linothorax or used in layers, or both.
Twining is also used to make Maori war cloaks; the cloaks are soaked before battle apparently, as this causes the weave to tighten up and the fibers to be more resistant to penetration by weapons.
Sorry for the repetition; I blame it on the fact I'm listening to the Havamal at the moment... :-)

[Dan Howard]

Layered linen armour has been used for around three thousand years all over the world. We have texts and surviving examples covering a lot of that time period. Every example of layered texile armour was made by quilting, not gluing. Sean's work has handily debunked all the dodgy translations and misinformation regarding glued linen armour. When the so-called "evidence" is examined, it turns out to be no evidence at all.

The only example of glued layered armour anywhere in the world is up near the Arctic Circle where hides were sometimes glued together into 2 or 3 layers to make armour. There is a reason why it wasn't used elsewhere and Todd summed it up - it simply doesn't work. The Arctic climate has zero humidity and a low enough temperature that prevents insects, mold, and bacteria taking hold. There are examples of layered leather armours in warmer climates but they were sewn, not glued. The glues of the time had plenty of other applications in warmer climates, but not armour.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

This claim has put historical research back decades. It is this kind of spurious logic that leads to highlander ninjas. Proper research is based on evidence, not baseless speculation. It is good to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

[Feinman]

I renounce Highlander Ninjas and their mind-clouding bagpipe weapons! If there is no evidence for something it must be discarded. If there is evidence for something but it doesn't fit into current understanding of a subject, one must maintain an open mind; paradigms have changed repeatedly over the years. The Egyptians were supposedly the most religious people of their time --their temples and shrines are in ruins now; hubris is the enemy of understanding. Not paying attention to evidence is not just the domain of the ignorant; it results in academics believing in and promoting things like the glued linothorax idea... I've known many engineers, scientists, academics; it appears that learning and knowledge is not a light that dispels biases or a key to open closed minds; those unfortunate characteristics are part of the fundamental neural architecture of a person, which is why it is so difficult to change people's minds about anything; it's usually a fool's errand. Unfortunately ignoring evidence is a serious problem --a statement that instantly conjures dozens of modern examples in one's mind.

P.S. I love the phrase "linothorax glue"! I am going to use it along with "horse feathers" and "Chinese drones"! ;8-D

[Dan Howard]

What's worse is misusing the evidence that we DO have have. Aldrete's book cited two texts that allegedly proved the existence of glued linen armour. Sean showed that they said no such thing. It wasn't a simple mistranslation, it was an outright falsehood.

[Feinman]

What's worse is misusing the evidence that we DO have have. Aldrete's book cited two texts that allegedly proved the existence of glued linen armour. Sean showed that they said no such thing. It wasn't a simple mistranslation, it was an outright falsehood.

I'm glad Sean got to the bottom of the issue. There are a ton of modern glued linothorakes out there... Sigh.. Trick or treat??