Being taken seriously by the classics folks and public

[richsc]

Got an interesting email:

"Reenactment is a lot to swallow for far too many. I can't get a single one of the local Latin teachers either to attend a reenactment event ...

"Most of the members of the Grex Latine Loquentium also seem to think
that reenactment (and Nova Roma) are somewhere between silly and insane"

I wonder about the image of reenactors and reenactment, and how 'the public' and the professional community at large views your groups around the world. Do you see a problem? Ideas on improving if needed?

[Viventius]

Interesting question, but my main response is: does it matter what they think? I am an archaeologist and find both doing re-enactment, and visiting re-eanctments, enhances my understanding of the past. Even if I'm worried about the authenticity of what I see, it's still engaging my brain on some level (if only to keep it enquiring and thoughtful, rather than static in its outlook).

Those who are of the disposition to dismiss re-enactment out of hand are missing something, and that's their problem. We are unlikely to be able to 'convert' them and it's their loss, not ours. Fortunately, my own profession seems to be generally very open to re-enactment as a valid way to explore the past, and there are a lot of us archaeologists in British re-enactment.

[Robert Vermaat]

Grex Latine Loquentium? Wot's that? hock:

If they indeed hold that opinion, I assume they are:

a) uniformed and not wishing to get informed
b) unfairly generalising
c) a bunch of stuck-up elitists who do not matter to us anyway

[Antonius Lucretius]

What I remember of my painful years in school and in latin courses is that, apparently, it was determined that Latin was a dead language and hence had to be taught by dead teachers..

[Neuraleanus]

Maybe part of the problem is confusing reenactment with Nova Roma. I find that there are a core of Nova Roma that take themselves far too seriously.

[richsc]

From just these posts I suspect that areas that were part of the Roman empire fare better than those in north America.

It would be even more interesting to compare, if you could do such a thing, 'typical' european reenacting with 'typical' north american RE.

[Magnus]

Well, I remember doing the Grape and Wine parade 2 years ago, in which this group went in, and they were all Star Wars reenactors. Don't get me wrong, I love star wars, but I wouldn't dress up as a wookie. I thought, wow, what a bunch of geeks. Then I realized I was wearing 1900 year old armour with horse hair on my head. Hmmmmmm....yeah, I better shut up.

A lot of it has to do with image...let's face it, in the "wanna be cool" pervasive attitude in N. America, doing things like what we do isn't considered an "in" thing unless it's halloween. Given that most anything to do with looking cool involves people looking like celebrities, buying the latest MP 3 player and having a cell phone, you shouldn't be surprised at the reactions many take to those of us willing to parade around in something that doesn't fit the mould.

Personally, it doesn't bother me. I'm pretty up front, so if I'm met with any negativity I just explain what it is I'm doing...they either have a bit of interest at that point or they don't. In anycase they're no longer negative. But if it's hard to find support in this...oh well. Who cares.

To each his own.

[Dan Diffendale]

I think what you're talking about is the opposite of what Rich is talking about. I think Classics professors and Latin teachers tend to see reenactors more on the lunatic fringe/unrespectable side while the general public lump reenactors in with "classics geeks" and the like. We get caught in the middle.

[richsc]

The folks of "Grex Latine Loquentium" actually speak/read/write Latin:

[url:3rnrp47j]http://www.alcuinus.net/GLL/[/url]

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

Got an interesting email:

"Reenactment is a lot to swallow for far too many.  I can't get a single one of the local Latin teachers either to attend a reenactment event ...

"Most of the members of the Grex Latine Loquentium also seem to think
that reenactment (and Nova Roma) are somewhere between silly and insane"

I wonder about the image of reenactors and reenactment, and how 'the public' and the professional community at large views your groups around the world. Do you see a problem? Ideas on improving if needed?

Rich,
You MIGHT mention to them that if they don't get people interested in their language, nobody will take their classes... Not only does reenacting cause an interest in different languages (why ELSE would I sit in a classroom and also do homework as an adult), it also helps them learn too. To see the ancient ways, put together, live, and in colour not only will let them FEEL this time period, it will excite others to do so too. ...and if that doesn't work, well, tell them they're hide-bound academics and to go bugger a goat! ;-P
DMV

[Muzzaguchi]

Hi All,

Well, firstly I must confess that I am not a reenactor but I am a fan of reenactment (when we were in the UK I thoroughly enjoyed the English Heritage Living History events.) I must also confess that I am an academic - teaching at Sydney University and doing a PhD in didactic military literature and castramentation. I am also an opera singer. I also lecture in opera history - mostly to adult education groups.

And so it was a very brave move last week that I gave a paper to an academic audience at the university entitled 'Singing Nero's Praise' arguing that opera can offer historical insight into figures and events from history and into historical interpretation. Basically my point is that opera was composed by individuals who were for the most part highly educated and in many instances its librettos were written by the intellectuals of the day (John Dryden for instance). Thus they show us how history was interpreted at the time and (within the constraints of the genre) how it could be used. It also offers insight into the history of the time of the opera's composition. Fascinating stuff.

Opera therefore offers us an insight into how the ancient world has been interpreted from the 17th century onwards. It can also show us how the ancient world is still interpreted outside academic halls. To paraphrase Viventius - modern opera productions enhance my understanding of the past even if the authenticity of what I see is dubious, it still engages my brain on some level. Without going into exactly what I argued I will tell you that most in my audience (I think) enjoyed my paper and only a couple gave me the withering academic glances they spend years perfecting to suggest that I was wasting their time. One said that he failed to see how opera could help us understand history.

There are open minded and closed minded individuals in all professions and I think if people are unwilling to engage in new methods of understanding that is their problem and their loss. (Of course this is not how I phrased it at the paper!) What I said to them was that last year I had the opportunity to perform the lead role in Guiseppe Verdi's Opera Attila and I would like to think that I brought some degree of historical understanding to the role of Attila the Hun. What is more, singing the role gave me historical insight in a way a book (or even watching a film) never could, despite the fact that several of the incidents in the opera plot are unhistorical. You see, I commanded a hunnic army (well most of the male chorus were in their sixties but I suspended disbelief!), uncharacteristically fell in love with Odabella, and wheeled and dealed with a turncoat Roman general. Like Charlton Heston's comment on 'reenacting' taking Seville (?) 'I know what it is to take a city', reenacting or performing can give you a sense of history in the way that academia cannot and so it is a valuable resource.

There are those in the academic community who recognise the value of openminded engagement with new/different modes of research - I always refer my students to the (apocraphal?) story of the four pommel saddle and academics arguing that no Roman cavalryman could charge with lance couched - cue reenactor in background demonstrating practically that it could easily be done.

In these postmodern days there are academics who use every resource available to them - the number of works analysing the interpretative use of film on history is just one instance. No one else seems to have tapped into the opera market!

The ironic thing is that I will be presenting the paper again - this time to my opera audience who I think will be far more willing to engage with the material I present - lovers of any subject are always more willing to see its relevance everywhere than those who are not - this is something we also have to bear in mind whether we be reenactors or opera singers!

As I dismount from my high horse rant I apologise for the length of my post.

Cheers

Murray

[TFLAVIUSAMBIORIX]

2 people in my unit are classics professors, and i myself study & speak the latin language, as well as use it to communicate in writing probably 10% of the time. this shows that not all classics folks are that crusty.

[Caius Fabius]

Reenactment and Nova Roma. Love reenactment, don't have much interest in a "micro-nation" of "New Roman neo-pagans", and I would not want any of my students to get involved with the group. I'd be glad to have a reenactor come and talk to a class, since I do it myself. I don't have problems with the schools, teachers, parents or kids, even at religious schools, just answering the questions and giving a SHORT lecture on Roman military or Roman life, or Roman coins, whichever the instructor desires.
On the other hand, promoting a certain group or lifestyle is probably not what most teachers would feel warm and fuzzy about. Just a short look at "Nova Roma" related websites from a general google search answers most basic questions, and might cause a teacher or administrator to have second thoughts.

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

Reenactment and Nova Roma. Love reenactment, don't have much interest in a "micro-nation" of "New Roman neo-pagans", and I would not want any of my students to get involved with the group.

Hmmm, I don't know... I too find them a bit much. They act like it's real and all. A nice hobby, but just that. Until they have an army and can actually tell people what to do... However, I fear they turn more people off than they bring in ;-(

I'd be glad to have a reenactor come and talk to a class, since I do it myself. I don't have problems with the schools, teachers, parents or kids, even at religious schools, just answering the questions and giving a SHORT lecture on Roman military or Roman life, or Roman coins, whichever the instructor desires.
On the other hand, promoting a certain group or lifestyle is probably not what most teachers would feel warm and fuzzy about. Just a short look at "Nova Roma" related websites from a general google search answers most basic questions, and might cause a teacher or administrator to have second thoughts.

Yeah, I hear you... their approach is a bit much. Not that I don't find it intriguing... but I have a life.
DMV

[Iulia Cassia Vegetia]

In defense of Latin teachers and academic types in general (deep down under my hippie-artist exterior, I am an ancient history geek), it was my high school Latin teacher, Michael Fiveash, of Lexington High School in Massachusetts who was "out of the box" enough to really nurture my creative side. I did an extra credit oral presentation based on Vegetius" book "DE RE MILITARII" to the entire body of students that was taking Latin and classics at the time, using Minutus, my 1st c. AD Roman soldier model. (I realize of course that the lorica isn't correct and the shield and helmet are too small, but heck I was only 16 when I made the model in 1976)
Michael was so very encouraging at a time in my life that I wouldn't wish on anyone, and his support got me through it. Encouraging creativity in any form as a tool for learning is an invaluable teaching tool, as it "brings the past alive" as they say on the HISTORY CHANNEL here in the States.