Who else are you?

[Arthes]

Greetings,
I also class the 6th century as part of the 'Arthurian' period.
The Arthurian period stretches from the 2nd Century and Lucius Artorius Castus to, as you say Faventianus, Arturious mac Aedan/Aidan in the late 6th and even Arthwys ap Meurig of Wales in the early to mid 7th who is Blackett and Wilson's 'Arthur'. (Artorius cross, etc)
I guess sub or post Roman is the correct reference for this period,(6th century that is) although there must have still been a high percentage of Romano Britons around who had intermarried and whose grandparents and even parents, could have been children of the Roman legionaries.
Maybe Siani was meaning that she portrays a Romano Briton in this time period.
Regards
Arthes

[Rutilia]

Oops, sorry! I should have said sub or post Roman Briton. Commonly known as the Arthurian timeframe. In that I am Aurelia Verica, Roman-Briton descent. That's what I meant.

Arthes had it right. Thanks!

Siani

[Robert Vermaat]

The Arthurian period stretches from the 2nd Century and Lucius Artorius Castus to, as you say Faventianus, Arturious mac Aedan/Aidan in the late 6th and even Arthwys ap Meurig of Wales in the early to mid 7th

Indeed he does, which makes it hrad to use 'Arhurian period' as a description for dating.
I'm no fan of Luciua Artorius Castus as a possible prototype.. Though I recognise he's one of the very many candidates these days.

Blackett and Wilson's 'Arthur'.

Will you not mention these foul-mouthing charlatans!

I guess sub or post Roman is the correct reference for this period,(6th century that is) although there must have still been a high percentage of Romano Britons around who had intermarried and whose grandparents and even parents, could have been children of the Roman legionaries.

Ever since the 'traditional date' of 410 as 'the End of Roman Britain' (not my date) we speak op 'post-Roman' or 'sub-Roman' Britain, a period mostly covering the 5th and part of th 6th century. Most people I know let it end as soon as Anglo-Saxons are mentioned anywhere, or around 577AD (Battle of Deorham).
Indeed, there was so much Roman around, I bet we can speak of Romano-British for a long time in that sense, take Gildas; very Roman educated at the start of the 6th c.
Children of legionaries (I take it you mean Roman soldiers?) would be grown-up by the 430s.. And since Germans also served in the army, that could make those children Germanic-speaking!
But since we use 'Romano-British' for British citizens of the Roman Empire, I think using it for the period afterwards would be confusing. :?

[Comerus Gallus]

I'm no fan of Luciua Artorius Castus as a possible prototype.. Though I recognise he's one of the very many candidates these days.

Why not?... Many Brithish resemblace their Turano-Sarmatians or rather
Scytho-Sarmatian ancestors... Of White but jet Mongoloid appearance hock:

Why do you think that in the resently movie of King Arthur, appears
among the Sarmatians a comrrade that fight like a SAMURAY ??? :twisted:

Also he resemblance this Ukrainian of the same descent:







The true Aryan Race :twisted:

True Aryan


No Aryan's... nor Ar. Dance

Close up of: ( No Aryan)
NO!...no...no...no... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Robert Vermaat]

I'm no fan of Luciua Artorius Castus as a possible prototype.. Though I recognise he's one of the very many candidates these days.

Why not?... Many Brithish resemblace their Turano-Sarmatians or rather
Scytho-Sarmatian ancestors... Of White but jet Mongoloid appearance hock:
Why do you think that in the resently movie of King Arthur, appears
among the Sarmatians a comrrade that fight like a SAMURAY ??? :twisted:

Modern British have no (or just very very very few) Sarmatian ancestors...
That recent movie was awful ! Anathema! Anathema!

[Comerus Gallus]

That recent movie was awful ! Anathema! Anathema!

:lol: I knew you "ll react like that

[Arthes]

Why do you think that in the resently movie of King Arthur, appears
among the Sarmatians a comrrade that fight like a SAMURAY ??? :twisted:

Do you mean Tristan (the one with the hawk)?

Will you not mention these foul-mouthing charlatans!

Sorry, I am definitely not sure about those two myself.... :? !

I'm no fan of Luciua Artorius Castus as a possible prototype.. Though I recognise he's one of the very many candidates these days

I have to admit it was that particular fellow who encouraged my interest in Romans, I didn't like them at all before....(hides from shower of plumbatae)!
Regards
Arthes

[Robert Vermaat]

(hides from shower of plumbatae)!

Ka-blam! :!: There's no hiding from showers of plumbatae.. :twisted:

[Comerus Gallus]

Do you mean Tristan (the one with the hawk)?
Yep! yep!.... Tristan it is :wink:

I'm no fan of Luciua Artorius Castus as a possible prototype.. Though I recognise he's one of the very many candidates these days

I have to admit it was that particular fellow who encouraged my interest in Romans, I didn't like them at all before....
Regards
Arthes

Aaaaaahhh!(sigh) it didn't show Artorius grave stone in biger size :evil: ...

Every one has his own preference of time about Artorius, mostly you all like the late Arthurian...

But he is for me the best candidate, and the most earlier one, so that give him more credit to my personal opinion...

Also you all who lives in UK, are aware of an archeological find not too long ago, concerning about Arthur (Artorius)????...

No long ago when King Arthur movie was been anounced to be shown in the theatrer, there was a lot of documentals been shown on TV, some just new one.... But the one that was more interested for me was, the one that spoke of the early Roman Artorius(Arthur),and that was the firs time that I knew about him, in his Latin name & origin.

But the most choking thing was that they show the ruins of an early Avalon ( maybe a head quarter?), and I can't recall it, but I think was not to far from were the historical Arthur suposedly been stationed... Also they try to show all the footstep of this Artorius....

They say that the quarter was called Avalona in Latin, very similar to Avalon, and there was a sarmatian knight called similar to Lancelot, but I can recall it?, plus obiusly they mention the name of that Arthur= Artorius ....

Sure is no evidence of that pseudo Guinever, nor the later saxons... I think that Artorius become a legendary figure, a myth like the greeks, and his name posible become a nickname for local heroes after him, and posible a title in the dark age for kings like a Caesar? ..... But who knows really :? roll:

[Arthes]

Greetings Comerus,
Guinevere,Guenevere,Gwynhyfar etc :
there is a lot of discussion about her name because of the different spellings, but some think it possible it is from Indo European root Gwen, related to Greek Gune, which can mean a woman or wife and even Queen, but in Dutch...an old cow!! :lol:
Personally I tend to go with the film idea of a Pictish ancestry and there is a story of her being buried in Miegle (famous for Pictish engraved stones) and also called Vanora (not Bor's Vanora..!) [url:25r652h8]http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/meigle/meiglestones/[/url]
She is called Winlogee on the Modena Cathedral engravings. [url:25r652h8]http://www.moval.edu/faculty/adderleym/Arthur/lancelot/modena_archivolt.htm[/url]
I think Arthur was also a title, whether inherited (as in the film) or descriptive of battle skills or techniques - which seem to relate to slicing or tearing asunder the enemy in one way or another.
I also discovered that in Etruscan, Arthur would be the plural to describe one who sections or divides...good for a Roman Equite..!
Uther- looking for something else I came across Urta, from Nim Urta, God of war and the 'ancestor'. In Turkic this became Urda which was a word describing the centre (or rallying point) This word was later used to describe a batallion of troops or an army (Genghis Khan's 'Horde' was derived from this word) it left me with this strange idea about 'Uther Pendragon' with 'Arthur' being the heir of a Draco led army.....lol
Yes, I am seriously interested in Arthurian research, fact and legend......and would need a seperate topic section if I start.... :lol:
Is Aballava the fort you mean? Is this some of the 'footsteps' you mean [url:25r652h8]http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/2/ha2lac.htm[/url]
Regards
Arthes

[Comerus Gallus]

Yes, I am seriously interested in Arthurian research, fact and legend......and would need a seperate topic section if I start.... :lol:
Is Aballava the fort you mean? Is this some of the 'footsteps' you mean [url:2rgutedz]http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/2/ha2lac.htm[/url]
Regards
Arthes

Yes is the stone

Also all your statement I like it, you are very into this matter :wink: , I had learned from it, it would be nice talk more about this in another topic

All is nice Guinevere, etc., nice, I think others too will like it if we can use fact sources & incluing fiction also :wink: make it fun you know...

[Robert Vermaat]

Guinevere,Guenevere,Gwynhyfar etc :
there is a lot of discussion about her name because of the different spellings, but some think it possible it is from Indo European root Gwen, related to Greek Gune, which can mean a woman or wife and even Queen, but in Dutch...an old cow!! :lol:

?? In Dutch?? How? I'm Dutch, I never heard of that nor can I understand how to render 'Guinevere' (or one of the other guises) into 'an old cow'...

Personally I tend to go with the film idea of a Pictish ancestry and there is a story of her being buried in Miegle (famous for Pictish engraved stones) and also called Vanora (not Bor's Vanora..!) /quote]
Pictish? Since she was first mentioned only by Caradoc of Llancarfan (c. 1130) I have some doubts that she has even a place with any 'real' Arthur. But the king of legend needed a queen, so the stoytellers gave him one..
Vanora? You mean Arthur's wife was called Vanora? But if Guenevere was called Vanora it wasn't Guenevere..

I think Arthur was also a title, whether inherited (as in the film) or descriptive of battle skills or techniques - which seem to relate to slicing or tearing asunder the enemy in one way or another.

nah, don't think that's true. I mean, we never find anyone being called Arthur, besides some personal names and minor princes. That's never a good basis for a supposed title! Too many names are 'made into' titles, like Vortigern, Merlin..

Uther- looking for something else I came across Urta, from Nim Urta, God of war and the 'ancestor'. In Turkic this became Urda which was a word describing the centre (or rallying point) This word was later used to describe a batallion of troops or an army (Genghis Khan's 'Horde' was derived from this word) it left me with this strange idea about 'Uther Pendragon' with 'Arthur' being the heir of a Draco led army.....lol

And since neither this god not Turkish had any bearing upon the Arthurian legend, we may safely discard him as one more 'late invention/addition, like Excalibur, Lancelot, Camelot, the Grail and the Round Table.. The best explanation for Uther that I came across was a misspelling from the Cambridge version of Nennius' Historia Brittonum we find the words Arthur mab Uter, i.e. in Latin terrible son. This may have been nothing, but it could be rendered as Arthur 'son of Uther', and hey presto! we have a name of Arthur's father.

[Arthes]

Greetings Valerius,
my answer to this must be jinxed...two posts were wiped out, as I sent them and then when I prewrote it, the file disappeared.... :?

?? In Dutch?? How? I'm Dutch, I never heard of that nor can I understand how to render 'Guinevere' (or one of the other guises) into 'an old cow'...

No, I meant that in Dutch the root 'Gwen' is kween, which is old cow...so it says on here [url:1ri2brsb]http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/phonetics/word14.html[/url]

Since she was first mentioned only by Caradoc of Llancarfan (c. 1130) I have some doubts that she has even a place with any 'real' Arthur. But the king of legend needed a queen, so the stoytellers gave him one..
Vanora? You mean Arthur's wife was called Vanora? But if Guenevere was called Vanora it wasn't Guenevere..

The Modena (Italy) archivolt was thought to be carved between 1120/1140. This has Artus de Bretania (not known if that is Britain or Brittany) and Isdernus supposedly attacking castle (it looks more like a fort to me) which has a female called Winlogee and a male called Mardoc within and a knight called Carrado holding a lance.
The other horsemen have names of Che (Cei) C/Galvagin, Galvariun.
(What I find amusing is the horseman in the middle (left) is turned around and look where the lance of the horseman behind is......hehe :lol: )
Vanora was said to be kidnapped by Mordred and held captive at the hillfort on Barry Hill, Alyth (there was also a 6th century chapel in Alyth) it seems she was unfaithful and when returned to Arthur he 'condemned her to the wild beasts', a stone is said to show Vanora being torn apart by lions, which makes me think of the Roman 'Games'.

And since neither this god not Turkish had any bearing upon the Arthurian legend, we may safely discard him as one more 'late invention/addition, like Excalibur, Lancelot, Camelot, the Grail and the Round Table..
The best explanation for Uther that I came across was a misspelling from the Cambridge version of Nennius' Historia Brittonum we find the words Arthur mab Uter, i.e. in Latin terrible son. This may have been nothing,
but it could be rendered as Arthur 'son of Uther', and hey presto! we have a name of Arthur's father.

I was thinking in terms of L. Artorius Castus and the Sarmatians there. The Artori family names include Cei, which is a coincidence....!
I noticed there was a Talorgan (Thalarg) mic Ythernbuthib in a list of those present at the founding of St Andrews Church (Kilremont)..(The Picts and Their Symbols, W.A.Cummings) this is thought to be 8th century, but possibly earlier (those same King names causing confusion again)
Regards
Arthes

[Comerus Gallus]

I was thinking in terms of L. Artorius Castus and the Sarmatians there. The Artori family names include Cei, which is a coincidence....!
I noticed there was a Talorgan (Thalarg) mic Ythernbuthib in a list of those present at the founding of St Andrews Church (Kilremont)..(The Picts and Their Symbols, W.A.Cummings) this is thought to be 8th century, but possibly earlier (those same King names causing confusion again)
Regards
Arthes

Hey what a coincidence too!, I have a half desappeared Brother that his Surname was Cummings hock: ... PS: it is posible that my brother descended from this people too Cristy :?: hock:

[Arthes]

Hey what a coincidence too!, I have a half desappeared Brother that his Surname was Cummings hock: ... PS: it is posible that my brother descended from this people too Cristy :?: hock:

What half disappeared.....??? :lol: :lol: