Padded Armour

[aitor iriarte]

I'd like that the 'collar' would be a subarmalis too but... what about a pleated linen undertunic? :?

Aitor

[Niedel]

Looks to me like the tunic.

Compare to the pic of Claudius here:
[url:xanmyzib]http://www.romancoins.info/Caesar-Sculpture-1a3.HTML[/url]

Titus here:
[url:xanmyzib]http://www.romancoins.info/Caesar-Sculpture-1b.HTML[/url]

Lucius Verus here:
[url:xanmyzib]http://www.romancoins.info/Caesar-Sculpture-2.HTML[/url]

And Messala in subarmalis and with the same collar here !!!!!!!!!!!!
[url:xanmyzib]http://www.astor-theatre.com/images/ben-hur/friends.jpeg[/url]

;-) )

[John M McDermott]

Down Eros, Up Mars!

[Niedel]

LOL @ John!

[Flavius Promotus]

Ach crivens, there goes another theory... :wink:

This strange 'collar' looked to me much like the quilted thoracomachoi in the De Rebus Bellicis, but the sculptures with the tunics have a point.

Sigh

[hansvl]

Hi guys,

What about this relief from Arlon, Belgium?



M.C. Bishop suggested in his book on lorica segmentata (vol. 1, pp. 72-73) that the sculptor intended to depict the mail shoulder doubling, edged with leather or fabric, with the tunic showing at the edges.

But to me it would make sense that under a mail shirt a subarmalis would be worn like shown on the monument;

The problem with the Aquincum relief for me is that it isn't normal to wear a cloak directly over a subarmalis.

What do you think?

(personal note: thanks Luc for pointing me to this Arlon-monument)

[Praefectusclassis]

Nice pic Hans! (got more, for the resources gallery, perhaps?)
Can you give us some more info on the context? Tombstone or campaign monument? Period? Etc?

[FAVENTIANVS]

Is that the famous mail shirt with segmentata shoulders?

[Tarbicus]

On the lower right figure there are definitely three distinctively separate plates for each shoulder, but there is no upper split breastlpate like on a seg (apparently).

Cheers.

[hansvl]

Hi all,

Is that the famous mail shirt with segmentata shoulders?

Yes, some say this is a combination of mail with segmentata shoulders. IIRC Simkins even made a reconstruction. But as pointed in my earlier post, M.C. Bishop dismisses this idea in favour of the edged shoulder doublings of the mail shirt. He, like Tarbicus, noted the missing breast (and neck)plates, which makes this kind of segmentata shoulders difficult to function correctly.

For the context of the relief: it is not believed to be a part of a grave-monument. I have to check my sources, but IIRC it is dated to the first century AD. This relief can be found in the museum of Arlon, Belgium (Orolaunum in the civitas Treverorum).

got more, for the resources gallery, perhaps?

Jasper, I will have a look in my albums. BTW the picture of the Arlon-relief was taken by Luc De Vos, who made a reconstruction of the Weyler-helmet (also in the Arlon museum). See my post in the re-enactment and reconstruction section.

Hans

[Flavius Promotus]

Hi all,

The tombstone of the auxiliary cavalryman Annauso (Mainz - from the imagebase) shows the same quilted tunic (or subarmalis?) at his neck.
Or do we see torques here ?

http://www.romanarmy.com/imb/ImgDbLg/lg_Annausod1.jpg

[Tarbicus]

With the quilted tunic neckline, is a scarf usually worn? Maybe it servea as a replacement to the focale?

Cheers.

[john m roberts]

Another fascinating detail of this relief is that their sword pommels look almost exactly like Viking trilobate pommels.

[drsrob]

I have known of this relief for some time.

I have compared it with gravestones like that of Vonatorix and Genialis. It seems to me that what we have here is a scale armour with segmentata shoulder defenses.
Note the pteruges at the shoulders in each case.

[aitor iriarte]

Leaving aside if the shoulder defences are segmentata or mail (but bear in mind that the sculptor had apparently difficulties in rendering correctly mail or textile pleats! 8) ), the rectangles at the upper arms are not pterugae, they are clearly the short sleeves of the pleated tunic or the subarmalis...

Aitor