Thermopylae

[Jona Lendering]

Just a note to let you know that I put online my photos of Thermopylae at [url:2yv06axg]http://www.livius.org/a/battlefields/thermopylae/thermopylae.html[/url] and [url:2yv06axg]http://www.livius.org/a/battlefields/thermopylae/thermopylae-text.html[/url]. Nothing special.

[floofthegoof]

Interesting! thanks for the pics.

How exactly do we know that the water came up to that road? Are we getting that from ancient descriptions, or is there other evidence that the water came that far? I suppose it's possible that the surrounding hills have eroded and filled the water with extra material. I wonder how long it takes for landmarks to change that much.

[hoplite14gr]

2000 years can change quite a few things.
Spercheios river forced the land into the sea several miles.
At Leonidas time the the coast line was near the modern road.
Today the land increase because of the mudfills of the river, was such that it was possible to build the satelite receiving station of the Greek Telecom company way behind the Statue of Leonidas!
If you drive from Athens northwards you cannot get the picture of how narrow the passage was at that time.
The hot water springs are mentioned in Herodotus but more clearly in Pausanias last book VIOTIKA-PHOKIKA (aka. about Beotia and Phocis).
The fountains and installations were operational around 170 A.D.
The local authorities are trying to remake the spa with modern installation if they get permision from the Archaological comitee.
Kind regards.
Stefanos

[Jona Lendering]

How exactly do we know that the water came up to that road?

I have little to add to the preceding message, except that Herodotus makes it very clear that the strip of accessible land was very narrow. Immediately north of the road, even today the country is substantially lower. You can see the ancient coast line and distinguish it from the later deposits. The deposits can be radiocarbon-dated if there are traces of organic material.

So we have three of evidence: the line in the landscape that divides the old and the new land; the description by Herodotus; the dating of the deposits.

[Magnus]

Pretty interesting page. I think of all the historical battles, this one ranks up there among my favorites. I truly hope they get the movie version of it off the ground.

[hoplite14gr]

Anybody knows links about the film?
Kind regards
Stefanos

[floofthegoof]

Pretty interesting page. I think of all the historical battles, this one ranks up there among my favorites. I truly hope they get the movie version of it off the ground.

I have "The 300 Spartans" at home on DVD. Haha I'm such a geek!

I was absolutely shocked to find it on sale at Wal-Mart.

[Magnus]

Nope...there was an idea to come out with a movie about Thermopylae based on the book "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield.

Unfortunately, it looks like it's having trouble getting off the ground. Why? I don't know...perhaps because of the other movies that have come out with varrying success such as Alexander, and Troy. Bruce Willis had taken an interest in it, as well as a few other notables (including George Clooney), but who knows. Maybe they're just sitting on it for now. I have "heard" that happens a lot with movie scripts sometimes.

Anyway, here's one link for it with the basic info:

[url:1l8adplq]http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808404115[/url]


I think story-wise this movie has great potential, but I think the timing is off...so maybe that's why they're waiting. But i googled "gates of fire movie" and didn't get much in the way of recent information. Who knows.

Even Steven Pressfield's website had nothing on it....maybe another search under the production company may yield more results.

[hoplite14gr]

The 300 was good movie for its time.
I thought that it was Frank Millers comic and not Pressfield that would be the base of the new film but perhaps I am wrong.
I wonder how they will do the MOLON LAVE scene.
The victorian translation "come and get them" misses the direct and rather
"Blunt" (aka with "genitalia") answer of Leonidas! It might start a controversy again like the one for the atrosious Troy scenario!
Thanks for the link
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Arthes]

Greetings,
a rather nice artwork featuring 4 Spartan and Thespaian Hoplites at Thermopylae
[url:2ig70xvn]http://military-art.com/dhm1243.htm[/url] one of them reminds me of somebody..... :?
regards
Arthes

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks Arthes.
The guy left could be the Thespian General. Purple was expensive. If he could afford top put purple empbroidery on his linothorax he is certainly no commoner. Leonidas depiction is also good. He was arrount 50 years old at Thermopylae. Kind regards
Stefanos

[hoplite14gr]

The Phokian general is intersting carring the emplem of Apollo of Tithorea.
The 2 crest come from a vase paintig of Achiles.
The Spartan with chalcidik helmet with the ram of Ares is intersting but the gorgoneio is of Athens not Chalk-oikos Athena of Sparta.
Perhaps a present from Kimon
Strongly disagree with the Athenian marine's hatchet :x
The Thespian with pilos has an exelent city emblem (Paul is smiling!) but the pilos...hmm rather too early I think.

Kind regards

[Arthes]

Greetings,
I have not seen (or noticed) the twin crest before, very impressive. Is that specifically to mark him as a general?
I have noticed twin holders on helms, but thought they were for the feathers/single plumes that were popular.
Talking of Spartans, having a coffee in a favourite bar earlier, the TV screens were showing Sky Sports. Glancing up, a name in a list of football (I think) teams really caught my eye.....Sparta!!!
What a pity they are not the real thing.....or maybe luckily for the other teams... :lol:
regards
Arthes

[hoplite14gr]

Most pottery that shows elaborate helms and crests in the Clasical era mentions great heroes or kings. From that we derive that generals wore more richly decorated armor.
Traverse crest for instance is not just the Dodona statuet but a potery fragment also showing Menelaos with a red trverse crest fighting some Trojans not mentioned as officers in Homer.
The photo does not metion the pottery location though.
Spartans and sports...well thare is a good one:
A Spartan not wining a cotinos in a just a sport was just negative.
A Spartan loosing in Pankratio was equivalent to throw your shield in battle.
And we all know what happend to a ripsaspis in Sparta.
Kind regards

[spyros]

Comerus Gallus Romus I've seen this reproductions in a greek publication about Thermopylae, there was also a picture of a black glad thespian hoplite caring a dipylos shield. If you have the picture could you post it?

Thank you in advance

Stefanos if you have the book the athenian marine is in page 53 where the author explain that his machaira was based on potery vases showing Athenians fighting Persians, using among other wapons a machaira like this. The Book is "Στρατιωτική Ιστορια νο 16: Η μαχη των Θερμοπυλών" Periskopio publishing