HELLENES (Greeks) & ELLAS Origins

[hoplite14gr]

Aristotle in Meteorologica said that in Dodona lived SELLOI or ELLOI (Meteorologics 352b).
There was an area called GRAEKIA hence they are referred as GRAIKOI
Claudius Ptolemy the Astronomer considered the triangle between Dion, Dodona, Delfi as the cradle of HELLAS (Greece)
HESIOD in Theogony wrote that Pandora from her love with Zeus gave birth to the brave GRAEKOS.
Parian chronicle states that DEYKALION who survived the cataclysm had a son called ELLINAS (HELLIN)
XENOPHANES from Colophon considers HELLENES (Greeks) those who speak the HELLENIC (Greek) language. Those from Sicily to Crimea then at this time.
Westerners use the name Greeks because colonists from GREA of Beotia made colony near Rome. The later Roman influence brought this name to others. Something similar with the Germans who call themselves Deutch.
The antiquity of the term is a source of debate if you use only classical writers
Aeschylus (Persians) ITE PAIDES ELLINON – Salamis 480 B.C. but the concept is definitely earlier.
Herodotus (Histories) Before the battle of Platea, Archelaos king of Macedonia gave to the Spartans the Persian plans saying “ELLIN KALOS EIMI, TO GENOS TO ARCHEONâ€Â

[Philhellene]

There is an interesting reference in the Parian marble (§ 6):

From when Hellen the [son of] Deuc[alion] became king of [Phthi]otis, and those previously called Greeks were named Hellenes, and [the Panath__ games____], 1257 [years], when Amphictyon was king of Athens. (translator: Gillian Newing)

The Grrek text is here:
http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk/ash/faqs/q004/images/a6.gif

I think the right translation wasn`t actually "Greeks", but "Graiks" or something like that. Russian translation of Cibenko gives the form "Graiks" ([url:2g761lds]http://www.ancientrome.ru/antlitr/marble/part1.htm#6[/url]). Is that correct form?

[hoplite14gr]

Graia was a Name of Dimitra godes of Agriculture.
A linear B tablet found in Thebes mentions the name and there is speculation that the term "GRAIK" might be as old as Hellen.
In my opinion though the term was initialy used to refer locality like for example Spartan , Athenian. The term ELLINAS defines a memeber of the nation.
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Hoplitesmores]

Do you guys know that romans are descended from Greeks?Many other europeans as well.I ll post when i ll translate the texts to english.

[Hoplitesmores]

this is for trojans

The troyans according to Dionysius Allikarnasefs ( Rom. Arch . a 61 k. ex.) were
" And the Troyan nation was hellenes from peloponese" or in Hellenic "Και το Τρωων εθνος ελληνικον ην εκ πελοπονησου ποτε ορμημενων".
And see homer Iliad Y 215 to 230 about their geneaology.

[Hoplitesmores]

> PERSIANS NAMING OF THE GREEKS & THE VARIOUS GREEKS TRIBES

There are several types of Yauna in the Achaemenid Royal Inscriptions:

(1)
Yaunβ in general: the same as the Greeks known as "Ionians", i.e.,
those living in Asia Minor. They can already be found in the Behistun
Inscription, when the Persian rule had not yet reached Europe. This
identification is 100% certain.

(2)
Yaunβ takabarβ, the 'Greeks with shield-shaped hats'. First mentioned
in DNa ( http://www.livius.org/aa-ac/achaemenians/DNa.html ), where
they are distinguished from the "normal" Yaunβ: an almost certain
reference to the Macedonian sunhats.

(3 and 4)
"The Yaunβ, near and across the sea": another division, for the first
time found in DSe ( http://www.livius.org/aa-ac/achaemenians/DSe.html
) and in a slightly different form in the Daiva Inscription by Xerxes
(XPh: http://www.livius.org/aa-ac/achaemenians/XPh.html ). The obvious
reading is "the Asian Yauna and the European Yauna", i.e., -again-
Asian Greeks and Macedonians.

On the other hand, Persian inscriptions are fairly stereotypical, and
the fact that there is a small difference between the precise wording
of DSe and XPh suggests that there is a difference. Perhaps, there is
a difference between the "Yauna across the sea" and the sunhat-Yaunβ.
If this is correct, the Yauna across the sea must be either Cypriot
Greeks (but why didn't Darius, who seems to have subdued Cyprus,
mention them?) or the Thessalians, Boeotians, and Athenians - nations
that Xerxes could claim to have conquered.

(5)
There is a seal from the age of Xerxes (
http://www.livius.org/a/1/greece/yauna_seal.jpg ) in which the great
king defeats someone looking like a Yauna. It is unique, because a
second man appears to have a hand in the killing, and this man looks
like a Yauna. Is this the Macedonian king Alexander who helps killing
a Thessalian/Boeotian/Athenian??

Such instances are extremely rare since only a handful
of original Persian texts have survived.There are of references by Darius I in
the Behistun Inscription to Sardis (OP Sparda), Ionia (OP Yauna) and
Cappadocia (OP Katpatuka). There are also a couple of statements
concerning the Greeks and their tribes in the Babylonian tablets.

[Comerus Gallus]

Do you guys know that romans are descended from Greeks?Many other europeans as well.I ll post when i ll translate the texts to english.

Hairete Ωλιβιος ειμι Ιωηλ τον Αμερκας ! hehehe!

Well if the romans were greeks, that makes me not half greek but twice or three times greek! hock:

I'm descendant of galicians from Lugo, ancient (Lucus Augusti) emperors & many noble nights come from the city as well in any part of Galicia, N,W,S,E many peole are of roman origin as well of galic... so that is one, number two, from my mother I'm Corsican from the ancient: Κερσικα νησος ... a mix of Maniates & aboriginals who were Λιγυς or Λιγυος, so Ligurians. then according with Strabo's if he is right, he say that some earlier authors had considered the Ligurians to be of Greek ancestry. Some peole belive that the Bible suport that, that all the sons of the greeks went to live for all over the coast of the seas...

I thought that romans if we accept leyend, were Troyans, but is hardly distinguish the Troyans from the Phrygians or Minoans, some belive that Troyans were a people of many groups...

I dont know if some one can brings light to all this matter....

Kind regards......

[Hoplitesmores]

Romans , were Troyans

The troyans according to Dionysius Allikarnasefs ( Rom. Arch . a 61 k. ex.) were
" And the Troyan nation was hellenes from peloponese" or in Hellenic "Και το Τρωων εθνος ελληνικον ην εκ πελοπονησου ποτε ορμημενων".
And see homer Iliad Y 215 to 230 about their geneaology.

i have lots more info i ll post in few days.It seemed to me that it wasnt such a mystery to them but just something we dont know.i ll post all my staff when i finish translating.

Ellin kalos eimi to genos to arxaion

[Hoplitesmores]

Better put this on a purely Roman forum too

Roman descent from the Hellenes

Plutarch. Roman causes

Ianos ,an Ellin from Peraivia was the first colonist in Rome , α progenitor teacher & civilizer of the Romans. The Romans honored him as a God with many temples and also gave his name to the first month of the year ,January (Ianouarios in Hellenic).

Virgil .Aeniad tome 8 ,50-55

His oris arcades ,genus profectorum ,
Qui regem euandrum comites qui signa secuti
Delegere locum et posuere in montibus urbem
Pallantis poavi de nomine pallanteum .

On these shores Arcadians a line led by Pallantas and as they were followers of Evandros followed his banners chose an area and found the city of Pallantio from Evander’s grandfather Pallanta.

Later at 138-161 ad the roman emperor Antoninos the respectful out of gratitude to the Pallantian colonizer gave honor to the pallantians with privileges making Pallantio (in Arcadia) from komi(large village) to poli(city). He also rid the inhabitants from any taxes and awarded them their freedom. (Pausanias. 4 XLIII, 1)

Julian hidalgos (emperor) in his work “For the king helios to Soloustionâ€ÂÂ

[Philhellene]

I think It`s better to divide this topic into 2 parts - about "HELLENES (Greeks) & ELLAS Origins" and about "Roman descent from the Hellenes".

[Goffredo]

Hi guys
did any of you see the movie "My big fat greek wedding".

There is the old proud greek father of the greek bride that keeps telling everyone that words, and just about everything else of importance, comes from Greece! The girl friends and the bride try to contest the old man by coming up with a counter example. They provocatively say "how about KIMONO?". But the old man doesn't even glitch and is brilliantly able to come up with an etymology to prove the greek origin of that word too. Hilarious scene!

[Comerus Gallus]

Hi guys
did any of you see the movie "My big fat greek wedding".

There is the old proud greek father of the greek bride that keeps telling everyone that words, and just about everything else of importance, comes from Greece! The girl friends and the bride try to contest the old man by coming up with a counter example. They provocatively say "how about KIMONO?". But the old man doesn't even glitch and is brilliantly able to come up with an etymology to prove the greek origin of that word too. Hilarious scene!

Well then forget about my origins, I will not participate on this discussion.
but mine origins is the 3 that I state above, so its true.... about if were greeks or not, only the mighty Lord knows...


Some may have faith & not in what historian tell, as some has faith in the Bible tell you.

I dont put all my trust in etymology neither, that, for the cases of many religious & political biase
Thank you all, thanks Olivios too :wink: ....

[hoplite14gr]

Hi guys
did any of you see the movie "My big fat greek wedding".

There is the old proud greek father of the greek bride that keeps telling everyone that words, and just about everything else of importance, comes from Greece! The girl friends and the bride try to contest the old man by coming up with a counter example. They provocatively say "how about KIMONO?". But the old man doesn't even glitch and is brilliantly able to come up with an etymology to prove the greek origin of that word too. Hilarious scene!

Nice film but exactly as you said the old guy simple is not edjucated enough to make elaborate arguments but as for important things coming from Greece well:

ISTORIA = HISTORY
LOGIC from LOGOS=word - LOGIKI=the ability to reason = LOGIC
ALPHABET= ALFAVITON - the first two letter of the Greek Alphabet ALFA,VITA
BIOLOGY = VIOLOLOGIA VIOS=LIFE GRAPHIA = to write to study
ANTHROPOLOGY ANTHROPOS= human being
GEOGRAPHY from GEA = EARTH GRAPHIA = to write to study
STRATEGY from STRATIGOS -the one who leads armies, the General
TACTIC = from TAXIS to SET the men in position
...and I could go on for an eternity...
....AND YES I ENCOURAGE ANY PERSON ON EARTH TO BE PROUD OF HIS COULTYRE AND HERITAGE. 8)

[Philhellene]

Do you guys know that romans are descended from Greeks?

Well, I think Persians are descended from Greeks as well. According to Nicolaus of Damascus (FGrHist #90 F6 = Etym. M., p. 180, 42)

Achaemenes is a hero and because of his name the Persians was called "Acheamenids". He was a son of Perseus; he took such name, because his ancestry were from Achaia. Nicolaus says it in his second book.

[Arthes]

Khairete,
I just found this article.....[url:1kjpmiih]http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_3161729_08/04/2005_54956[/url]
The Kalash from Pakistan are supposed to be the descendants of Alexander's army.
Legend has it the Pagan Kalash were descended from deserters who stayed behind after Greek Emperor Alexander the Great’s army passed through the area more than 2,000 years ago, and for centuries they lived in splendid isolation
The girl photographed certainly does not have a typical Asian look or these two children
[url:1kjpmiih]http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100003_08/04/2005_54967[/url]
Totally amazing, I really hope they manage to help them keep their heritage and own identity intact.
regards
Arthes