12-20-2005, 06:55 PM
Quote:Mr Allen,
Might I suggest that you actually read the Iliad before blithely dismissing three years of my life. The full-height shield that I speak of is specifically described as touching the neck and the ankles when slung on the back [6.117]. It is hardly open to misinterpretation. There is absolutely nothing in the Iliad to suggest that the Figure-8 shield was in use during the events described by Homer and very little in the archaeological record to suggest that the figure-8 shield was in use either in the 11th century BC or later during the alleged time of Homer's life. There is absolutely no reason to assume that the full height shield attributed to Hektor is the Figure-8 typology. It could be the so-called "tower" shield. It could be a rectangular shield. It could be the oval shield on the Dodwell pyxis. It could be an oval shield with scallops cut out of it. It could be the shield described by Tyrtaeus that covers "thighs, shins, breast, and shoulders." [XI.23] There is also evidence for full-height circular shields both in the Aegean record and in other cultures. The North American Indians, for example, made extensive use of full-height circular (not oval) shields and their method of warfare is very similar to that described by Homer. In the Aegean there is a full-height circular shield on a seal found on Cyprus and the vase of Aristonthos might also be depicting full-height circular shields.
Give me one reason why the "neck to ankle" shield described by Homer was the Figure-8 typology and not any of the others in the archaeological record.
Dan, I've never dismissed three years of your life, blithely or otherwise.
I have stated, however, that I HAVE read the Iliad. Please read what I write, if you propose to take issue with it. Incidentally, I have recently acquired another copy of the Iliad and, having just finished Thucydides, I will go back to Homer when I've completed Herodotus.
It's clear you misunderstood me. I said the Iliad isn't relevant IN THIS DEBATE and it isn't relevant to the accurate re-construction of arms and armour of the Trojan War period. It struck me that the models we were looking at were not intended to reflect Homer's descriptions, but an attempt to present what the modeller had learned from the researches of others. So Homer is irrelevant, Q.E.D., in this particular instance.
You also seem to be running away with the idea that I'm trying to persuade you that the figure-8 was the only shield in use in the Trojan Wars, whereas I merely said I thought thsat such shields would have been around at the time of the Trojan War.
Your basic mistake seems to be that you are so keen to parade what you learnt from Homer, that you'll give us all chapter and verse from it whether it's relevant or not. That's mere pedantry, Dan.
I have to say that your postings frequently come across as pretty patronising and whilst I recognise that you have had the privilege of making this area your field of study, and have clearly made much of that opportunity (you did just "happen" to mention being in an Honours class), I'm still disinclined to put up with anyone "putting on the dog" with me.
Now, I offer you a chance to step back and see that I never intended any slight to you (or Homer) and perhaps you can convince me that you weren't taking a superior tone with me.
