Religion and Re-enactment

[FAVENTIANVS]

Tsk, tsk, tsk... those Galileans always troubling the pacific citizens... :lol: :lol:

Aitor

Wait for the Episcopus we are bringing this year... and beware of him! :lol:

[Crispvs]

I too am a committed Christian, but I do not see why this should stop me from acting on a regular basis in re-enactments of Roman religious ceremonies. The Roman soldier I portray, whilst being as 'authentic' as I can manage, is not the same person who comes home to my wife, goes to work each day or even who wears the kit. When the public see us on the field or during a ceremony they are seeing well researched impressions of the real thing but nothing more. Unlike the real Publivs Atilivs Crispvs (presumably), I do not believe that Jupiter is up there with a thunderbolt waiting to strike me down if I forget to mention his name. Therefore, however seriously it might appear that I take my regular role of religious acolyte, the fact is that I do not take it seriously. The only part I do take seriously is the part about making it look as if it is something serious. After all, the Romans were very religious in their own way, and we could hardly do an accurate impression of the Roman army if we did not undertake re-enactments of religious ceremonies.
The fact is that there is a solid block of committed Christians on centre stage during our religious display, but the intention is to allow the public to get a glimpse of the way the Romans undertook their religion so that is what we give them. When I call out: "Jove Optime Maxime! Conserva nos!" I could just as easily be calling out the name of a dead cat, but it is important that the public get the impression of real Roman soldiers at prayer. If they do they go home a little better educated. This may be my hobby, but I think that the educational aspect of re-enactment should feature strongly in our estimation of the hobby.

Here is a picture taken just afer a re-enacted ceremony. To the right, closest to the altar can be seen both regular principles in our religious display. I am standing to the right and Suvavis, who normally depicts the priest, is to the immediate left. The brass things tucked into my sash are cymbals by the way. I don't have a good shot of a religious display in action I am sorry.



Crispvs

[tlclark]

As a Christian (well, I have a chi rho on my shield ...) I hate Mithras too. I feel the burning urge to persecute the pagan members of Comitatus. I think we should re-enact that aspect the next time we're at a show :twisted:

Welcome to RAT Celt Jamie :roll:

Good! We can have our own Theodosian purges! !:twisted:

After that...

Well then the orthodox have to persecute the Arians, the antinomians, sabellians and many others. It's not just a Christian on pagan affair, everyone can get into religious intolerance! :wink:

Honestly, I do have something against Mithraism, well actually I have something against mithraist scholarship to be precise.

...the endless comparisons to Christianity, the attempt to prove that Christianity is derivitive.

Groan.

Travis

[tlclark]

As a Christian (well, I have a chi rho on my shield ...) I hate Mithras too. I feel the burning urge to persecute the pagan members of Comitatus. I think we should re-enact that aspect the next time we're at a show :twisted:

At Fectio, we have a natural balance when it comes to religion:
Valerius (me) pretends to be a Christain, while Chariovalda (Andreas) pretends to be a pagan..

Do you take turns persecuting each other? :wink:

[tlclark]

Crispus,

Great pictures and sound reasoning.

I am of a similar mind when it comes to pagan matters. This is play-acting in a way, performing a religious ceremony would not bother me any more than playing Macbeth would make me feel like a murderer.

(I dunno, are there any serious Method-actors out there that disagree?)

However, I WOULD feel unneasy doing a Christian rite!

I am a committed Christian, but outside the apostolic creeds. As a Byzantinist though I deal all the time with Greek Orthodox monks and other devout orthodox Christians.

Dressing up as a 6th C. Episkopos, would give me pause, since there are people who are part of that ritual continuity. That would be taking on too much. After all, the principle rite that would have been performed before battle was the Eucharist, giving soldiers a last opportunity at God's grace before the possibility of death. 'Faking' a pagan ritual is one thing, as Paul says, for we know idols are nothing. Faking the 'Host' and the 'Presence'? That's another.

I wonder how Fectio and Comitatio handle it?

I think the only clear answer for a Byzantine re-enactor is simple.

We have to recruit an orthodox priest!!

[Robert Vermaat]

As a Christian (well, I have a chi rho on my shield ...) I hate Mithras too. I feel the burning urge to persecute the pagan members of Comitatus. I think we should re-enact that aspect the next time we're at a show :twisted:

At Fectio, we have a natural balance when it comes to religion:
Valerius (me) pretends to be a Christain, while Chariovalda (Andreas) pretends to be a pagan..

Do you take turns persecuting each other? :wink:

:lol: We could, we could.. Most of the time we link up with others and form mobs... 8)

I am of a similar mind when it comes to pagan matters. This is play-acting in a way, performing a religious ceremony would not bother me any more than playing Macbeth would make me feel like a murderer.
(I dunno, are there any serious Method-actors out there that disagree?)
However, I WOULD feel unneasy doing a Christian rite!

I know what you mean. I contemplated becoming a bishop or something but a) I would be needing far better preparation and b) indeed what about doing this without being a priest?

I'm not too concerned about the public (they would, I think, understand it was play-acting), but I need it to be good enough for myself.
Well, now I know Faventianus is bringing a bishop I no longer need to worry about it...

[Restitvtvs]

Thank you all for your Roman military-related religion posts here. I hadn't seen this thread before, when I was ML Restitvtvs, and I've had many of the same questions.

I plan to post Roman military Christian content here, including links to selected historic texts, summaries, images, etc.

I also plan to post Roman civilian Christian content in Ancient Civ Talk.

Again, thank you all!

Best regards, +r

[Neuraleanus]

at least in the USA. I too saw the pagan display at Roman Days Northeast and thought it quite well done. They had a very nice altar. Nevertheless, someday I definitely want to have an altar made. Perhaps something dedicated to fortunata or disciplina. The romans were fond of worshiping abstract things like that.

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

This may be a bit non-sequitur, but...

I have a standard, two suits of Roman armor and a statue of Mithra visible from my front door. When the doorbell rings it is one of two groups. First, a religious group asking me to convert. I point to the standard and tell them I am a Roman. If they persist I point to the statue of Mithra and ask if they want to hear my message after they tell me theirs. They always leave then. Which is good, because I don't have a message. The amour works for the second group. During election time, I point to it and tell the Democrats I am a Republican and the Republicans I am a Democrat. I don't know if it the standard, the amour, or Mithra, but I am protected from evil and have no fear.

Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)

I am sure you all note 666 is in Arabic script and originated with somebody else anyway, and was not is use before the 700s, I think. So literate taggers would spray paint DCLXVI on the walls...

[tlclark]

During election time, I point to it and tell the Democrats I am a Republican and the Republicans I am a Democrat. I don't know if it the standard, the amour, or Mithra, but I am protected from evil and have no fear.

Does it work on Mormons? They can never take a hint! :wink:

I was constantly pestered by telemarketers to buy their security system. Well I got fed up and told them I was a member of a coven and that we had protections spells we had a lot of confidence in.

They never bothered me after that!

Ever since then I feel like I should give a donation to my local wiccan group just out of gratitude.

Thanks.

Travis

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Travis,

Rome is still all powerful and it's symbols will still intimidate the world. Even my neighbors and the lawn care salesmen shrink in fear of the might of Rome. Mormons and magazine subscription people are struck with awe and flee.

I am sure most of know this, you who walk around your neighborhood wearing your reenactment gear.

Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)