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Quote:I found this site:
www.ancientscripts.com
Which explains it's self. It has Proto-Sinaitic to Gothic, with time lines. The Greeks scripts include Ionian, Athenian, Corinthian, Argosian, and Euobeian. This last was the most common script to spread to Italy and evolved into Etruscan. So Molon Lave would pro baby more appropriate in Euboean on an axillary shied boss.
Gaius Decius Aqulius
(Ralph Izard)
Have a look in the Greek language thread. I collected some ancient vesrions of the Greek alphabet with commnets. It might help you.
God idea the MOLON LAVE. You explain to people about a hero's quote and to the more "initiated", you give...ehmm... "full" explanation.
Nice one Ralf! Go for it!!
Kind regards
Gaius Decius Aquilius
Unregistered
Quote:Do you intend an impression of an auxilliary from the Greek-speaking world? And what time-period? You probably don't want the Euboean alphabet unless you're an Italiote ally from the early or middle Republic...
Danno, I know your into lingustics and I defer to your opinion. So what scripts were in use circa 1st Cent.? In "MOLON LAVE" itself, there seems no real difference in any of the scripts except there is no V (use B it seems) and the E looks like abent F with and extra whatzit, like a rake. This is why I ask before I start hammering away.
While Latin may be the formal language of the army, more "personal" and informal markings, I think, not need be so. I have the one unclear reference to some greek on the inside of a a shield. Its not scientific and not reliable to draw conclusions from modern examples, but I did see grafitti in every place imaginabe in Viet-Nam. As I stated above, the closer to the actual fighting you got, the less "military" things got. I saw things scrawled by American soldiers in English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Italian, and even German. Most had a negative or obscene conotation. I dont know Vietnamese but I can still curse fluently in it. And Spanish for that matter. What I am saying is it may not be out of place. Anyway, this is why I started this thread to find out what would be an appropriate obscenity. I do not get the impression that Roman troops had to suffer the petty PC that exists in the modern army. So a Gaul in Syria might use a greek expression where it would probably be understood by most everybody even thoughy they might not be native Greek. Grammer and spelling may not be perfect either. Actual examples are great, if anyone has them.
A cue-bow to Hoplite14gr. --Police slang- means "cue to take a bow", as derived from "conduct unbecoming (an officer)". Normal usage: when an officer gets written up for something the rank-and-file applaud, but the administration is not amused by--.
Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
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Quote:Danno Ulpius:1bttjcg4 Wrote:Do you intend an impression of an auxilliary from the Greek-speaking world? And what time-period? You probably don't want the Euboean alphabet unless you're an Italiote ally from the early or middle Republic...
Danno, I know your into lingustics and I defer to your opinion. So what scripts were in use circa 1st Cent.? In "MOLON LAVE" itself, there seems no real difference in any of the scripts except there is no V (use B it seems) and the E looks like abent F with and extra whatzit, like a rake. This is why I ask before I start hammering away.
A cue-bow to Hoplite14gr. --Police slang- means "cue to take a bow", as derived from "conduct unbecoming (an officer)". Normal usage: when an officer gets written up for something the rank-and-file applaud, but the administration is not amused by--.
Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
Gentlemen the legions of the east at the late republic contained a number of Greek speakers. The legions that Ceasars murderers used in Philipoi and Pharsalous had localy raised elements. They started becoming numerous in the imperial period.
Ralf, unamused adminstrations seem to be an international problem.
They are not only unumused the are unapreciative too.
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Quote: He actually suggested to the persian herald that King of Kings perform an action with his mouth to Leonidas groin. Thats the milder way I can put it :oops:
:wink: That's what I was thinking 8) Actually, I just watched my video
of 300 Spartans again last week, and it still stands up fairly well for a
movie made 40 some years ago. Leonidas's contempt for death being
neatly counterpointed by David Farrar's comic portrayal of Xerxes. Farrar
labels his own luckless troops 'miserable cowards' at every opportunity,
while Richard Egan (as Leonidas) rewards the insubordinacy of Phelon
with the compulsory death-sentence which the law demands... being allowed to stand in the front rank of the Spartan line (which was just what the young man had followed the '300' to thermopylae for) :wink:
I had to laugh, though, as Egan told the Persian herald his reply, and
then translated it for the camera as: 'Come and take them'. Personally,
I think I actually prefer the sanitised version. It answers the appeal of:
'Lay down your weapons, and the King will spare your lives,' with all that
is required... a calm refusal to do so. And as we know, that was enough
to make Xerxes hopping mad. And it seems to give broadly the same
message as your other Spartan motto: 'You can never defeat me, only
kill me.' 8)
Ambrosius
"Feel the fire in your bones."
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Oh, how we love a good Hollywood production, even when it is out of line. This is one of my favorites, too. However, it tells us more about ourselves and the Cold War than anything else.
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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John and Ambrosius your comments were accurate and to the point.
Ralf though in my opinion was right on bringing the topic that from the dawn of time soldiers used "strong descriptive" language.
So ancient troops in our case Greeks and Romans were no exception.
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Quote:I thought about drawing the winged phallus known from wall graffiti, but that might be too obvious to the public. Some arcane script would suffice.
Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)Quote:As already stated via Paul Elliot, I have a 9 inch winged phallus painted on the back of my shield. I also wear a bronze original phallus around my neck. Never be ashamed in showing a phallus. They would have been everywhere, barrack walls, street alley ways etc etc. The crowd may look twice at you or even ask you questions about them. I am never embarrassed to answer them. If they were worn or displayed 2000 years ago, then I feel safe and proud to show mine!!! I even wear the neck piece at work some times – but that’s a different story.
Regards
Domitius
![[Image: praes-shield.jpg]](http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f243/Celt001/praes-shield.jpg)
Jamie (Domitius)
DEO IANVS
C.S.I
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You jut gave me an idea about shield interion design :!:
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You learn something new every day!
On a related note
Is there anywhere a selection of the various bawdy songs the soldiers tended to sing about their commanders? I've found the odd english translation in my own sourcebooks but seeing them in the original latin would be nice.
Especially ones about good ol' Ceasar, being as he's nearest the centre of my own interest.
Real name- Peter Downing
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Quote:Is there anywhere a selection of the various bawdy songs the soldiers tended to sing about their commanders? I've found the odd english translation in my own sourcebooks but seeing them in the original latin would be nice.
Peter, where are the English translations from? I'd be interested in seeing them.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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I've got one in a book on Julius Caesar (originally in german so i'm not sure how accurate it is) I'm not sure how far I can go but I'll try and give the gist. (I can't find the actual words right now)
Julius Caesar screwed the Gauls, Nicomedes Caesar.
Caesar rides in triumph now
Nicomedes does not, though he screwed our Caesar
Caesar wasn't keen on that one :twisted:
There was another one about him being a 'bald womaniser' but I can't remember where I saw it, maybe in Suetonius. I'll go look.
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This must have been sung by Pempey's troops before Pharsala but did not do them any good it seems. Cicero was supposed to started this rumors about Julious!
The following was curved in a Preobrasenkiy Guard regiment sentry post:
(translated from russian 
He who beat his men a lot,
rises straight to the top!
He is thought extremely keen,
though a devil he has been.
Those who fail to pass this test
serve along with the rest......
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I vaguely recall another ditty sung about Caesar. This and the one about Nicomedes were supposedly sung lustily by the troops during his Gallic Triumph - this sort of derogatory song was traditionally allowed at Triumphs, and behind it lay the serious religious tradition of averting a jealous God's anger. In similar vein a slave stood behind the red-face- painted Triumphator(not the melodramtic blood in HBO's "Rome" )in his chariot saying; "Lord, remember thou art but a man !"
"Home we bring our bald whoremonger !
Romans lock your wives away !
All the bags of Gold you sent him,
Went his Gallic Tarts to pay ! "
(Caesar had a terrible reputation for 'womanising', but famously applied double standards - 'Caesar's wife must be above suspicion' ! )
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
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Was it Caesar who was also referred to as the 'Bythnian stew' ?
Memmia AKA Joanne Wenlock.
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