The Abandonment of the Gladius for the Spatha - Why?

[Robert Vermaat]

Well, I agree that there is not a cross-guard on the spatha. I disagree to that you would loose your fingers at any glancing blow. I just tried to deflect a few blows and stabs and if you do it with the flat as I been instructed to do by medieval manuals the guard on my sword stopped the two glancing blows that I received.

Oh sure, I agree to that. But if you can't manage that all the time you're still losing your fingers. :twisted: My point is that if this were a sword for sword-on-sword fighting, it would have a cross-guard, as one can see with other swords of the period. Which is why I (and other with me) think this was not where it was used for - primarily, of course. It was a development of a cavalry sword, and later with the infantry I think it was not used to hit other spathae with - again, primarily. When this fighting was called for, swords developed cross-guards, and for a good reason, I think.

I don´t want to slander or demise the fun in re-enactment fighting here, but it is NOT real fighting. In it´s own right as a form of theatrical show it is very good and in some ways as a sport but it´s not the real deal.

Nor do we even assume that. But I will maintain that we still can make conclusions about the use of it, without going to such extremes.

This is the very reason why We are starting our group, to find out how the weapons respond to deflecting and blocks and what is the most efficient way to use them. And it is also a necessity to know this things in addition to the archaeological finds and historical sources to understand a development as the one we discuss here. At least IMHO

As long as you are fighting with blunt swords and not any intention to hurt your opponent, you'll be able to be more sure of some conclusions but I maintain that you are not too different from the 'show-fighters'. That will always be the case when you're not using sharp weapons and aiming for a kill. I mean, it's still a hobby or science at best - not bloody survival as it would be if you were training for war, would it? It's that last step which nobody is (should be?) prepared to take.

I hope i did not offend anybody with my rather untested argument earlier.

Not me, anyway.