Gap-Sleeved Tunics

[Carlton Bach]

Salve

I am now the proud owner of a very light, fine wool fabric and would like to try my hand at something that does it justice. A gap-sleeved woman's tunic looked like an interesting project, except that i don't know how this is actually done. Has anyone here done it or knows where to find information on the practical aspects? I have A. T. Croom's book with pictures and drawings, but it doesn't describe the actual method used to get that effect.

Thanks

[tlclark]

My wife has a chiton with the gapped sleeves. In the earliest Greek times, the plan is simplicity itself. It's basically a cloth folded in half, and then fibulae or pins are used to secure the top edge. the gap for the "sleeves" and neckhole are just a little larger.

This is a little impractical. So my wife's is secured with faux pearl buttons that look like fibulae.

Let me photograph it and send it to you, but I have to dig it out of the closet.

Travis.

[richsc]

My wife sewed in her gap sleeves on several tunica. Rather a gather of cloth on one side, and I think looped on to the other, sort of like button. She hand sewed them together. I'll have to ask her when she's back from travel.

[Carlton Bach]

My wife sewed in her gap sleeves on several tunica. Rather a gather of cloth on one side, and I think looped on to the other, sort of like button. She hand sewed them together. I'll have to ask her when she's back from travel.

Thank you, that would be much apreciated. That is exactly the technique I am looking for. I don't believe in the button theory.

[richsc]

Looks like she just gathers or pinches a bit of material at intervals between the fabrics, and sews them together. That's pretty easy to do.

[Marcus Mummius]

could someone explain me what the long sides of this garment look like. Are they sewn closed with an opening for the arms or are the unsewn and closed with knots of fabric like the parts on the shoulders?


And was this kind of tunic worn belted or unbelted?

Kind regards,

[Carlton Bach]

could someone explain me what the long sides of this garment look like. Are they sewn closed with an opening for the arms or are the unsewn and closed with knots of fabric like the parts on the shoulders?


And was this kind of tunic worn belted or unbelted?

Kind regards,

I've only seen them sewn closed. Not that I'd categorically exclude a very risque gap-sided version, but I think it would interfere with the visual appeal.

[Marcus Mummius]

I've only seen them sewn closed. Not that I'd categorically exclude a very risque gap-sided version, but I think it would interfere with the visual appeal.

That might depend on who is wearing it :wink: . But I agree with you.

Best regards,

[Barbara]

Carlton, if you still need advice, you could scan the picture and perhaps I can tell you more.

Btw: A Chiton is never fixed with fibulae, it is always sewn, with "knots" or fixed with stripes lika a stola. When it's the same shape, but fixed with fibulae, it's a peplos.

A Chiton or a peplos could be worn unbelted or belted, even two times.
The following picture shows the personification of September, wearing a chiton that was belted two times. It's a mosaic from the so called "Südkirche" from Aquileia, but in the origin the room was just a representative building. It's dated to the constantinian time. The second belt is not seen, but direct under the first one.

[Carlton Bach]

Carlton, if you still need advice, you could scan the picture and perhaps I can tell you more.

A Chiton or a peplos could be worn unbelted or belted, even two times.
The following picture shows the personification of September, wearing a chiton that was belted two times. It's a mosaic from the so called "Südkirche" from Aquileia, but in the origin the room was just a representative building. It's dated to the constantinian time. The second belt is not seen, but direct under the first one.

That would help. I have the badsics down, I am wondering about the details (what stitch to use, how to fold the cloth into those little bunches, whether to use something like peas to construct them around). Unfortunately, the image I have is 1.4MB - can I E-mail it to you?

On the question of belting, I assume clothing was designed for one way of wearing it? Otherwise, wouldn't a two-belt dress be much too long to wear unbelted?

[Barbara]

On the question of belting, I assume clothing was designed for one way of wearing it? Otherwise, wouldn't a two-belt dress be much too long to wear unbelted?

You are totally right, Carlton.

Concerning the bunches: On statues etc. it looks as if there where small stones - or as you assume peas - in it. I don't know any archeoogical evidence for metal pieces or pieces from other materials (bone etc.) for that way of getting those bunches, and the only way to get them ist to sew something in there. But they are so regular.... Maybe that they had sheep's wool in there or just fabric rests, thats not so heavy and you can form it into that flat and round size. The rest is just a good piece of sewing :wink:

[Marcus Mummius]

Concerning the bunches: On statues etc. it looks as if there where small stones - or as you assume peas - in it. I don't know any archeoogical evidence for metal pieces or pieces from other materials (bone etc.) for that way of getting those bunches, and the only way to get them ist to sew something in there. But they are so regular.... Maybe that they had sheep's wool in there or just fabric rests, thats not so heavy and you can form it into that flat and round size. The rest is just a good piece of sewing

Do you know of photographs of good reconstructions of these bunches? I'd really like to see them.

Kind regards,

[Barbara]

I'm working on it, in May my chiton will be ready.

But we have several other chitons, maybe I can talk to Maebh to make some photos.

Concerning the scan of the statue that Carlton sent to me:

Maebh told me, that in greek times a chiton is always made of linnen, because in its origin its from somewhere in the orient and "chiton" means "linnen". That's why the fabric seems so soft and thin. The statue shows a woman wearing a so called "Scheinärmelchiton", that means that the holes for the arms are not on the long side, but on the upper side. Normally a chiton like that would be as wide as your arms are, when you are standing like a "T" (from fingertip to fingertip). The chiton you mentioned is a little smaller. In Greek times the bunches were made of bonze (so told Meabh), but in roman times it seems that they were not (no finds, no literature?). I don't know if in roman times the cloth habit changed, but I saw several reconstuctions with a tunic under a woolen chiton. I will have a look in "roman chlothing and fashion" if something's in there. After Maebh, the chiton is always single worn or under all the other clothes, in greek times. I'll try to find out for roman times.


That means in this case the long sides of the chiton are completely sewn up to the end, and on the upper side you have the hole for the head in the middle, then the parts with the bunches, then the holes for the arms and the rest ist sewn again. In that special case the part with the bunches seems to have a rim, sewn or an applicated band or something like that.
The chiton is belted under the breast, with a fabric band.

So, I hope I can tell you more during the next week, when I'm in university again.

[Barbara]

That's a photo of Susanna from the musica romana, wearing a double belted "Scheinärmelchiton" made of silk. The best "high quality - high standart!"-reenactorin I know (look at this jewellery! hock: )

http://www.musicaromana.de/de/galery04/rr_02.html

[richsc]

Lucky to see Susanna in person; I didn't know she had an aulos.

I did notice in the HBO Rome that the slave women, in the first episode, could be seen with peplos that were not pinned on the side, only closed with the belt, as you could see the side of the breast as they raised their arms (you don't notice the first time as you're watching Atia all the time).