Shield-strap

[Dan Diffendale]

There was a discussion in the Puteoli-Pozzuoli Relief thread a little while ago which brought up the question of iconographic sources for shields carried on the back as opposed to the side... This seems to be the ticket:
http://ubi-erat-lupa.org/site/datenblat ... sp?Nr=3594
Of course, it appears to be flat, so it makes more sense?

[Flavius Promotus]

Dan, thank you very much for this link! The image quality is not bad all, and certainly better than in 'Imp.Rom.Legionary 161-284' (although neither the photographer nor Osprey should be blamed for that).

The depiction of the oval shield is insofar very interesting, as we can see the stablizer bar on the inside of the shield - including one of the rivets!
If the shield design shown here was the same as it was at Dura-Europos, then this bar should have been made of iron.
I am a little puzzled to see this bar extend onto the rawhide rim edging hock:
Do you think this is an error made by the stonemason? If not, this would speak for a detachable stabilizer bar!

About the carrying system - I am quite sure this oval shield was carried on the back (turtle-style), but it is not a curved rectangular :wink:
Unfortunately, I cannot see a carrying strap - what looks like a strap running over this legionary's left shoulder is probably the tassle fringe of his sagum. (perhaps the imaginary strap 'lies hidden' under the cloth?)

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

Is there any evidence that Roman cavalry used shield straps in combat like the Normans at Hastings ? Or was that a medieval technological breakthrough ?

I read that only a VERY skilled rider can wield both his shield and spear while holding the reins at the same time. But if he had a strap to hold his shield for him he would have a free hand to hold the reins.

Since the Roman saddle was unknown for many years, I thought maybe the use of a shoulder strap or harness could also be an overlooked possiblity.

[Peroni]

The Doncaster shield remains contained an attachment point for a strap. It is a vertical grip shield and therefore has been considered to be a cavalry shield. It also has an off-centre boss. (higher than the centre)

The report is by P. Buckland.

Some tombstones show shields attached to saddles, this IMO could only be done by such a strap. Whether they were used as a guige strap is unknown, but having ridden Roman style, I would say that a strap is a most definite advantage!

[Theodosius the Great]

Hi Peroni,

Thanks, that's very interesting.

Whether they were used as a guige strap is unknown

Doesn't the fact that the boss is off-centered suggest that it was used for combat ? Maybe it was a way of compensating for the change in height level since the rider's hand wouldn't be guiding it ?

but having ridden Roman style, I would say that a strap is a most definite advantage!

I bet ! Have you used a strap to allow the shield to hang from your neck to protect your flank ? I've never seen a reenactor riding while carrying a shield and spear - they only do so while posing for a stand-still photo shot.

[Peroni]

Have you used a strap to allow the shield to hang from your neck to protect your flank ?

I have. I will post pictures of the rear face of my cavalry shield when I get home for you. It actually goes around the shoulders, as the neck is a little uncomfortable to hold the weight of the shield. It is also supported by the arm.

[Conal]

Isn't the strap across his shoulder his sword belt as pommell can be seen in left hand ?

I'm confused as to why you think this may be an image of him carrying his shield on his back ?

There is a sword in mid air at his right shoulder , i think both shield and sword are meant to be hanging on a wall

[Peroni]

I think the sculpture shows the rear of the shield and depicts the iron bar for the shield grip.

[Mithras]

Theo, your new avatar looks very good! Where can I see pictures of your finished officer impression?

[Vlad the Impala]

I think thats whilst a very nice image, it should not be taken literally.

the shield no more straped to his back than the sword balanced on his shoulder (IMHO).

as with other 'tombstones' equipment is sometimes simply included to illustrate the deceased occupation etc-

[Theodosius the Great]

I will post pictures of the rear face of my cavalry shield when I get home for you. It actually goes around the shoulders, as the neck is a little uncomfortable to hold the weight of the shield. It is also supported by the arm.

Thank you, Peroni. I'm most curious to see what it looks like - it must look like a harness system. Can it be concealed with a cloak ?

Theo, your new avatar looks very good! Where can I see pictures of your finished officer impression?

Thanks, Mithras. I just posted some links here

[Dan Howard]

Avete,

Is there any evidence that Roman cavalry used shield straps in combat like the Normans at Hastings ? Or was that a medieval technological breakthrough ?

It certainly isn't a medieval development. Large Mykenaian shields were controlled solely by the guige with both hands kept for the spear. See the Lion Hunt Dagger for one iconographical example.

[Flavius Promotus]

I think thats whilst a very nice image, it should not be taken literally.
the shield no more straped to his back than the sword balanced on his shoulder (IMHO).
as with other 'tombstones' equipment is sometimes simply included to illustrate the deceased occupation etc-

something that should indeed be kept in mind!

[Peroni]

Jaime,

Here's the photo of the back of my cavalry shield with the guige strap.

The long strap goes around my right shoulder and buckles up there.
The left arm goes through the other two support straps in order that the reins can be held comfortably in the left hand without bothering with the wooden shield grip.

That said, having a vertical grip on the shield also helps too.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... CF1830.jpg

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

Is there any evidence that Roman cavalry used shield straps in combat like the Normans at Hastings ? Or was that a medieval technological breakthrough ?

It certainly isn't a medieval development. Large Mykenaian shields were controlled solely by the guige with both hands kept for the spear. See the Lion Hunt Dagger for one iconographical example.

Thanks, Dan. Here it is.
[url:j05ybt84]http://www.timelessmyths.com/classical/gallery/dagger.jpg[/url]

I forgot that the Macedonians had a similar system. I guess I meant : was it a breakthrough for cavalrymen in medieval times ?

Ave Peroni ,

Jaime,

Here's the photo of the back of my cavalry shield with the guige strap.

The long strap goes around my right shoulder and buckles up there.
The left arm goes through the other two support straps in order that the reins can be held comfortably in the left hand without bothering with the wooden shield grip.

That said, having a vertical grip on the shield also helps too.

That's looks very secure and more comfortable than just letting it hang around your neck - and probably a lot safer in case you fall. It's a much better design than what I had in mind - you have MUCH more control of the shield and, like you said, it gives you a free hand to control the reins. Thank you !

I'd like to see if I can adapt my concave shield to your design. I'll need to use rivets.