Training for throwing javelin/pilum

[richsc]

we have a javelin contest at RomanDays which I have never come close to winning, and I'd at least like to do better. Other than working out at a gym, has anyone ever trained for throwing the traditional track and field javelin? Anecdotal accounts say trained t&f folks can hurl a pilum a good long distance, so it must be effective. Any suggestions on training?

[Neuraleanus]

From the little bit of experience that I have tossing these things about. Perhaps you should try and get a track and field coach to come to RomanDays to help us out.

[TraderTrey9785]

I attempted, once, to through a javelin in high school and I found it to be one of the most discouraging moments ever. It looks so easy when you see it on TV or when you watch an experienced person throw one, but actually doing it is a different story. I know it makes a difference as far as the amount of time you spend in a running start, however, I'm not sure if the Romans were able to get a good running start with a pilum seeing as how they were in rather close formations. I'm sure velites probably did though. I would even say not only contacting a track & field coach, but even talking to someone who might have thrown one in high school or college would help -- they might know good procedures and training tips.

Best of luck!

[FAVENTIANVS]

http://personales.ya.com/ad932102038/ge ... p2908.jpg&

That's comlies TIBISIVS, RAT member as well, he has done javelin throwing at high school, ask him, he knows pretty well. He also was in the Catalan national team.

[richsc]

Perhaps you should try and get a track and field coach to come to RomanDays to help us out.

I did try that with an apparently young, enthusiastic coach, and when I explained what I was really trying to do I think he concluded I was nuts. But that was just the first one I've tried. Must be someone game out there.

[TFLAVIUSAMBIORIX]

once you do get some instruction that is only 1/10 of the battle, the rest is train, train, train. throw everyday, muscle memory is a huge part of it.


I can only throw a pilum accurately about 60 feet, and I train 3 times a week with it, so don't get too discouraged.

[richsc]

only throw a pilum accurately about 60 feet, and I train 3 times a week with it

Not bad at all: hope I can do that. Is that with a run or standing still?
But getting a range to throw may be tricky, so I have been trying out various weight room equipment, including one (can't recall the name) that has a swing arm and pull on it, and practice 'throwing' various weights. I vary between a strength throw of 50 pounds and quick throws of 20 and 25 pounds. They don't feel too much like throwing, but better than nothing.

[Aedon]

Khairete,

I have actually thrown the track and field Javelin quite a bit. In practice I would typically throw the Javelin 100-115 ft off of the three step. I never really could incorporate the lead-in run with the 5 step, so I just stuck with the 3 step. My PR with the Javelin off of the 3 step was over 130 ft. Unfortunately, it was not in a competition. :? ?

Accuracy, though, is harder. I could occasionally hit a gatorade bottle at about 20 ft. :lol:

Khairete,

-Aedon

[Tarbicus]

Wiki: How to throw a javelin

[Aedon]

Khairete,

By 3 step I mean 3 cross over steps. I couldn't transition from the lead in steps to the crossovers without losing acceleration, so there was no point in doing the lead in. Your body has to keep constantly accelerating. It is difficult to do running over ten steps, so just doing 3 very rapidly accelerating crossover steps is easier and somewhat effective. It helps to have long arms and good "body snapping" ability.

My method, some training, some experimentation:

If you can keep up good acceleration as you arch backward to throw, than by all means use a lead in! If not, just start leaning backward and dart forward strongly with 3-5 crossovers.
Palm up, as your arm draws back the tip should be level with and close to your eyes. Your back should be bent backwards in a C shape. Your shoulders should be almost parallel with the javelin.
As your right arm hurls the javelin forward, your right leg should be in forward motion as well, left leg planted and pushing. The full length of the Javelin should be passing through the small, imaginary hoop at your eye level. Your opposite arm should be pulling back and around, pulling your shoulders and torso around like a whip.
At the same time, your back is is straightening from its former C-shape like a bow after its string has been cut.
If you can incorporate all of that leverage as well as utilizing pure arm strength (and length!)and speed to hurl it forward you can huck it a good distance. Just make sure the javelin travels in a straight line from the time the tip is by your eye to the last push your fingertips give it. If your angle is wroung or you did not throw it straight, the javelin will turn in the air and not spear into the ground.
Your right foot should be moving at a good speed when you release and it will stomp down hard.


Khairete,

-Aedon

[Tarbicus]

Here's a technique webpage of sportspeople releasing the javelin.

And here's an amusing Flash game for when you're bored.

[Crispvs]

Just a little caveat here. The technique of modern track and field javelin throwing is all very well but is it the same tecknique the Romans would have used. Whilst I am sure that Roman soldiers were trained to throw pila a reasonable distance, it is worth remembering that the pilum was a volley weapon rather than a piece of competetive equipment. As such, I am sure that it had be thrown either standing on the spot, with a short runnup, or whilst running. To be effective as a charge breaking weapon the technique would need to allow the throwers to carry on running rather than stopping once the javelin was thrown, so that they could take advantage with swords of the chaos caused by the pila. I think that that means that a large part of the modern throwing technique goes strait out of the window.

Crispvs

[Titus Amatius Paulus]

The only can give you a advice: train, train and train. But if you what to improve your launching make some questions:

1º Seek the weigh center of the pilum / javelin, is better launch in the weigh center of the weapon. If the weigh center is nearer to the end / tip of the javelin than to the point it won´t work: allways will fall in the tip and the point never sticks.

2º For long weapons is better throwing in a plain trajectory than the parabolic.

3º Make only three or four long steps and launch using all the body not only the arm and in the throwing try to follow the movement of the javelin / pilum with the throwing arm.

4º Try to give a spin in the longitudinal axis to the weapon it will be more precise, the full force throwing won´t reach longer.

[Tarbicus]

Just a little caveat here. The technique of modern track and field javelin throwing is all very well but is it the same tecknique the Romans would have used. Whilst I am sure that Roman soldiers were trained to throw pila a reasonable distance, it is worth remembering that the pilum was a volley weapon rather than a piece of competetive equipment. As such, I am sure that it had be thrown either standing on the spot, with a short runnup, or whilst running. To be effective as a charge breaking weapon the technique would need to allow the throwers to carry on running rather than stopping once the javelin was thrown, so that they could take advantage with swords of the chaos caused by the pila. I think that that means that a large part of the modern throwing technique goes strait out of the window.

Crispvs

Crispvs, I remember reading somewhere (it may have been on RAT I admit) that the time between the pila volley and the legionaries smashing into the enemy was 4 seconds, and they launched their pila on the run. The short amount of time ensured the enemy had no chance of pulling the pila from their shields, which gave the Romans a major advantage. Even if it's wrong, and I'm not saying it's right, it's a great video to play in your head :wink:

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hi Rich

I used to throw the Javelin at college level - It is not all about strength or run up but more technique - you need to whip it out you hand and rotate it across the tips of your fingers to give a rifled effect - but a pilum as already mentioned is a different animal to the modern javelin and less robust!!!! - As well as that Crispus is right, the pilum would not have been used in the same way - no large run up and probably a different action and balance - remember you've got a bloomin' great scutum in the other hand and large neck guard to negotiate. My own opinion is that they would have used over shorter distances with flatter trajectories - but hey only my opinion - all practice mate and as they say in the AD "it's all in the wrist action Sam!!!"

Happy chucking

Mark