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Boeotian/Dipylon Shield
#1
With all this discussion about the "black thespian" hoplite illustration, I was wondering about the boeotian shield. It's already been mentioned that it was still around during the Persian Wars but I have a few questions regarding it and its use.

Was there any specific advantages or disadvantages the boeotian shield would have versus the aspis?
It was mentioned already that it would held either horizontally or vertically, I'm wondering if it was held strapped to the arm similar to the hoplon or gripped with a center grip (horizontal or vertical)?
Where they constructed in the same method as the aspis or be "dished" in a press like a scutum or maybe something else entirely?
What do you think were the purpose/uses of the two scallops on the side of the shield? Spear slot/rest? Sword hole? Shield hooking device?[/list]
~Matthew Hlobilek


"That which does not kill you will only make you stronger."
-Nietzsche-
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#2
Beotian was a development of Dypylon.
Potery shows it with porpax and antilavi like the argolic hoplon.
We cannnot rule out other ways of holding it though for the early archaic period 800 to 750 B.C.
The scalop when held horizontaly aid aim for javelins which was good for the "irregular" battles of the Geometric Period.
It possibly aided dueling
When the phalanx was tightened with the round shields the beotian shield seemed to be inferior in phalanx fighting.
Possibly it was the Lilantio Pedio war arrount 680 B.C. that settled the question in favor of the "Argolic" hoplon.
Kind regards
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#3
Matthew,

As we speak I am making a Boeotian shield. I am following Mat Amp's guide except when I cut the layers extending what would be the center point about 7 inches. This makes it an extended aspis somewhat. I decided to do the grip vertical based on a vase painting circa 550 (more or less). I will face the outside main surface with thick leather, and paint the rim. The contact point between the rim and main body will be covered by a half round bronze wire about 1/4 in. or more, in width. I will post pics on how it progresses. Its too cold here right now to want to cut and glue which is best done when warm for a better set.

When it is made, flinging it around and stomping up and down with it may give me a better idea on what the advantages are or not. The other members of this forum are probably better informed than I on this, as I have mostly played with Roman toys.

I did note that on the utter disaster film "Troy" Brad Pit used a Boetian like shield. In several instances he brought up the shield across his body and placed his spear in the center cut out. This proves nothing, but may be a case of art imitating life, that is, Brad did something natural, inherent to the design. The main source I used for my interior layout based on the vase, shows a figure with a Corinthian, greaves, and javelin. This may (conjecture) represent some type of configuration more adapted to individual combat or for skirmishing outside the phalanx. Again I refer you to those on this forum more authoritative than myself.

Gaius Decius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
must figure out Greek name...

I note that as I was writing this, Stephanos beat me to the punch with his reply... I cant get back at his post in edit mode, but can you explain your terminology on the shield components I cant refer back to?
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#4
What proof do we have that this shield was used during the Persian Wars?
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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#5
British Museum pottery of the era showing mix of shields.
Louvre pottery of the era showing beotian shield and a Corinthian helmet with two high grests covered with scales!!

Porpax: bronze loop to pass the arm into
Antilavi: rope or metal handle to hold near the shields edge

Kind regards
Stefanos
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#6
In the illustrated version of John Warry's Warfare in the Classical Period, there is an artist's depiction of a Persian Immortal with a Gerron/Boeotian shaped shield resting on the ground against his legs. You can see the back of the shield and there is a vertical center-grip (and not to be taken very seriously, but in Troy, Brad Pitt's "Boeotian" shield has a center-grip as well).
I would think it is because of the skirmish/loose formation type fighting a Persian troops would have been accustomed to in the desert and would have required a shield grip that allowed more manuverability. Would I be wrong in thinking this?
~Matthew Hlobilek


"That which does not kill you will only make you stronger."
-Nietzsche-
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#7
The figure I described above comes from the same source, Warry, p 13. You will note the porpax (thanks Stefanos) is below center. This may be artistic, but might serve as a counterbalance to lifting the shieild quickly to block a decending blow. Maybe. When I get the body of the shield built I am going to play with the lcation of the porpax. I note the Doncaster shield (I think) is off center also. Whether this is intentional or sloppy work I dont know.

Ralph Izard
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#8
Quote:When the phalanx was tightened with the round shields the beotian shield seemed to be inferior in phalanx fighting.

Stefanos, do you recall any specific reasons as to why that might be?
~Matthew Hlobilek


"That which does not kill you will only make you stronger."
-Nietzsche-
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#9
Quote:
Quote:When the phalanx was tightened with the round shields the beotian shield seemed to be inferior in phalanx fighting.

Stefanos, do you recall any specific reasons as to why that might be?

Well I might be speculating but the havy wooden argolic shield had the edge on the phalanx crash over leather, wicker or bronze sheet beotian shields. Most of the beotian shields would leave the face exposed if held horizontaly...not to mention the down scalop leaving the groin open ...to danger! In packed formations the "Beotian" is less manauverable than round shield or scutum.
Kind regards
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#10
It seems to me that the Dipylon shield and the Persian type both descended from the late Bronze Age Hittite shield, which was very similar in shape. The Boeotian probably evolved from one or the other.

I'm a little skeptical that the side cutouts had anything to do with using a spear or javelins. A spear thrust overhand can be moved around very quickly to strike from numerous angles, whereas putting it into the shield opening seems to "lock" it into place. Not a very convenient height for a powerful thrust, either.

Maybe the side openings had something to do with how the shield was originally constructed, and simply hung on as a fashion in later times. Never underestimate the power of fashion...

I would tend to agree that the Dipylon or Boeotian shield would be just a tad less perfect for the phalanx than a round shield, just because the openings might make little holes where you don't want them. Might not be anything significant, though.

Are the vase paintings of Boeotian shields actually from the Persian War era, or just before? And are they perhaps showing archaic heroes such as Trojan War characters, so the equipment is more archaic to suit them? Just curious. It would help a LOT if there were any darn archeological remains...

Khairete,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#11
The British meuseum is roughly 500 B.C
The Louvre is just the shiled and weapons like "nature morte" and is roughly 480 B.C.
Kind regards
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#12
Quote:
Quote:When the phalanx was tightened with the round shields the beotian shield seemed to be inferior in phalanx fighting.

Stefanos, do you recall any specific reasons as to why that might be?

What, apart from the fact that it's got two bloody-great holes in, you mean?

Seriously, I can only see the Boeotian being useful if you use the scallops to thrust your own spear through. In phalanx, the scallop of one man's shield would meet that of the next man's and so present a good deal of room for manoeuvre of the spear. If your own spears a\\ren't coming through these gaps, the enemy's will.

In shieldwall fighting, I've found it remarkably easy to take advantage of holes in enemy shields.

If we get several Boeotian shields at Watford, we can try it and see.
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#13
Quote:The figure I described above comes from the same source, Warry, p 13. You will note the porpax (thanks Stefanos) is below center. This may be artistic, but might serve as a counterbalance to lifting the shieild quickly to block a decending blow. Maybe. When I get the body of the shield built I am going to play with the lcation of the porpax. I note the Doncaster shield (I think) is off center also. Whether this is intentional or sloppy work I dont know.

Ralph Izard

I think it's probably intentional, Ralph - a matter of ergonomic design, because a shield that is wide enough to cover you from knee to chin will not sit comfortably on your shoulder if your elbow is to the left of centre, which is where it will be, if the porpax is central. I made my porpax central and it works, but could be better. Also, I have quite long arms for my height. Given that most of us are not built to Golden Mean, Porpakes probably varied in position, when shields were made for the individual.
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#14
This must be custom made or artistic licence. And the scalops are still dangerous! "Black faced" pottery depictions show the Beotian shield more oval.
Kind regards
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#15
The shape of the above shield, posted by Comerus, is the same as the one on pg. 13 of Warry, and the one I am going to use as a model. I note the full equipment including an argos type brestplate and Corinthian.

Also noted, the crest it's self is also a matter of note. I have seen several vases with these. Most seem to be the "black faced" earlier type. I wonder if this is an allusion to rank or to somthing particular to a mythological attribute?

Ralph Izard
New Greek name: Lykaon
as suggested by Stefanos to me...
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