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Quote:To help, would a red shield with a black bull and a alternating black/white rim have been realistic. I have seen that pattern a few times on sites and kind of like it, but I don't want it if it is completely wrong. Also, would the Lambda have been used on a Boeotian?
Monograms are usually city states emblems and are out of the Beotian shield time frame with the probable exception of Chalkis that had the a monogram looking like the "eolh protection rune" :!:
If you go into the "Perseus project" you will find lots of images .
The rim pf the shield depends on the tribe you belong.
The internal decoration of the rim on the "Mysteries that you have been initiated!
Choose first these characteristics and then proceed or you will get lost.
And I am still researching a smaler versionof the Beotian that was a cavalry shield late 5th early 4th century.
Yes there are more evidence that we initially suspected.
I will post on the Greek Cavalry thread when I am done.
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Actually, I would lay down money that it takes 14 days. Remember, I already said that I have built an Aspis before in the same manner and know how many days it took to build. It took more like 6 weeks, but that was because I was waiting on Brass and supplies I had ordered online. Now I have plenty of scrap and all the supplies I need to finish it. I am NOT shaping a metal facing and have decided to go the linen route instead. I have made 20 plus shields (Roman, Viking, Greek, Scottish, Family Coats of Arms, Crusades, Etc.) over the past 9 months and have gotten quite efficient at the whole process. The only real time constraint are the dry times on the glue and the whole sanding process. That is where I think I am shaving off HUGE amounts of time. I use a hand 21" belt sander and after experimenting last time, found a way to sand both the outside and inside perfectly with it. It is all about angles and persistance until your arms feel like they are going to fall off. Bottom line, I usually finish the sanding in less than a 48 hour period and the rest is cake. I am one of those cannot do anything else until it is done mentalities. Outside issues aside, We shall see. :roll: Bottom line, 14 days or 41 days, I just want to find a design that I will like and that will fit in with history. I have been searching the web almost nonstop and most images are on Aspis, not Boeotian. I really like several patterns but am worried that if I try to paint one object in the size it appears on an aspis, the holes in the sides will distort or cut into the pattern too much. Stefanos.......When you mentioned two rams, would you be suggesting that maybe the ramheads would be on the top and bottom as mirror images of each other? I kind of like that idea if that's what your suggesting (maybe with bulls instead). Kind of like the avatar above with the doves? I am still looking as we speak. Also I still haven't found anything concrete on color. In the time period of this shield (as they seem to have been more personal), was the color also a personal preference?
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
Chris Boatcallie
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After searching, I am thinking one of the following:
(1) one bullhead in the center taking up most the shield or two mirror images of bullheads. I am thinking of a black head with white outline on a green shield. Then solid black rim.
(2) one bullhead in the center taking up most the shield or two mirror images of bullheads. I am thinking of a black head with white outline on a red shield. Then alternating black/white rim like the Manning paint job.
(3) A black vertical scorpion taking up the entire shield with either a blue or a red background. Not sure of an outer rim design.
(4) Some type of gold or yellow sunburst on a blue/purple/green background.
Note: I am kind of skeptical of green and purple being used during that time frame but noone seemed to challenge Lupus with the colors in the device posting. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong and before I make a mistake with a paint job.
Are any of these not far fetched on a Boeotian? Thoughts and help in the modification of the design/colors would be much help. The only reason I pick green on the first is because I have seen one already made in green in the forums and haven't made anything in that color yet, but if another color would be more appropriate with the bull or another symbol more appropriate with the green, I am open to suggestions. All thoughts are welcome.
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
Chris Boatcallie
Gaius Decius Aquilius
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Quote:The rim pf the shield depends on the tribe you belong.
The internal decoration of the rim on the "Mysteries that you have been initiated!
Kind regards
Stephanos,
The outside rim on mine will have the Hylleis wave. What do you recommend for the interior rim pattern? In addition to the porax and embossed parts attached to it, I want a bit more internal decoration beyond paining an ellipse as I have seen on some aspis. I still want to keep within 7th century Crete on this. Any suggestions, anyone?
Ralph
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Ralph,
I suggest wine leaves as in the first photo on the site www.4hoplites.com .
Chris
The central figure is the "personal emblem" in Sparta. The other 2 figures are the Mora (unit) emblem.
The basic colors are red black white.
"old landholdings" have black background. (Sparta)
"new landholdings" have red background. (Sparta)
White back ground except Argives meant that you family had links with the Pelopidae Warrior fraternity.
It would help if you tell me the tribe or city state that you want to represent.
Doreans had three tribes: Hylleis Dymanes Pamfiloi.
Many impresive designs come from games where they do have a reason to choose "impresssive" colors.
I am researching the possibility of blue background for units of Marines.
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Gaius Decius Aquilius
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Quote:Ralph,
I suggest wine leaves as in the first photo on the site www.4hoplites.com .
Kind regards
Stefanos,
They look cool and I will do it. What is the significance of the vine?
Ralph
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PLS check your P.M.
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Stefanos,
I know I want to do a Spartan shield using the Scorpion. I really do not know enough to pick a specific area within Sparta yet. Are you saying that the mirrored images are the unit and the center figure is the personal emblem? I think thats what you are saying. Was there ever just a central large figure on the Boeotian? Here is what I am thinking. I am settling on the Black Scorpion as my main symbol with a red shield. I was thinking of a black/white alternating pattern around the main rim, and then a black with small white circles around the inner rim. Please point me in the right direction with these specific colors and emblem and let me know how to change it. As far as the family/area to represent, if one was using the scorpion then any push to an image or exact layout of a Spartan Boeotian that uses the scorpion would be GREATLY appreciated and put my questions to rest as far as making this shield. The shield is going to be a decoration anyway so it doesn't have to match anything. I am going to use my Corinthian Aspis to match to my panalopy as I collect my Greek gear. Then I have the rest of my life to learn more about the differences between the various city states. :lol:
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
Chris Boatcallie
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A good source of Scorpion images is the Perseus project: Vases Database.
The Mora of the Skorpion was "old landholdings" so you need black shield with 2 white scorpions. Their eyes can be red.
Your personal image in the center can be anything.
The same applies for the inner rim.
Spartans being Doreans had three tribes so the outer shield edge will be:
Hylleis (wave pattern), Pamfiloi (spiral pattern) Dymanes (menander pattern)
There were also some free Acheans also with a triangular pattern
Hope it helps.
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That helps a lot thanks. Just for interest, which mora would have been seen on a red shield?
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
Chris Boatcallie
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All the new Morae after the Messenian Wars that were raised on the captured Messenian territory. Bull, Goose, Boar.
And members of families married to women of the Aegidae clan.
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I really appreciate all your help. I guess I'll make a decision by the weekend on how I will do the shield. I REALLY wanted to avoid another black shield. My Corinthian is a White Pegasus on a Black Background with a solid white rim. I now know that it was more likely that the background for it should have been light blue (I guess I got some bad information when asking about it), but it is a little late now and I really don't want to mess up the paintjob by trying to redo it. I may just end up resolving to have two black Greek shields or go with the bulls to have some variety. Either way, I'll make a firm decision before I start painting Sunday. Thanks alot.
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
Chris Boatcallie
Okay, Chris, good luck! If you're not going to face it in bronze, I would suggest leather as next best, and quite possibly authentic.
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Thanks. When I first made my Aspis, I had delusions of grandeur and started down the road convincing myself I could dish bronze or brass to cover my aspis. I started buying material and started small with making the porpax. After my experience with the Roman Brass Rim and the Porpax working for hours and no closer to perfection, I humbly admitted defeat and accepted that metal work is not one of my God given talents, so I covered the Aspis in a thick linen and painted it. It turned out great. I felt a little bad until I started really paying attention to the reenactor sites and to the shields. I then noticed that MOST are not covered in ANY kind of metal and it made me feel a little better. Out of all my shields (Templar, Kite, Viking Round, Scottish Targe, Aspis, Boeotian, Roman Scutums in various paint jobs, Family Coat of Arms, Heaters, Etc.), if I ever have a couple thousand saved in the future, the Aspis is the only shield that I would intend to commission to be made by anyone other than me to add to my collection. I want to commission someone to make it RIGHT with the wooden core, thin bronze outer, leather inner, fittings, and the traditional Lambda Spartan design so that the paint doesn't cover the bronze. Like I said though, that is probably a decade off for me. I would like to complete my Roman set this year, Greek Panalopy next year, then my Templar, then my Viking, and last my Samurai. THEN, I will probably save for an even more authentic Aspis as mentioned above. Anyways, enough rambling. The Boeotian is cut out and ready to be glued together. I will finish the gluing by Friday and start the sand job. I think I am going with the Black shield with White Scorpions circling a inner solid white disk. I will paint the outer rim in the spiral design and the inner with something else. I like the wave, but someone here is already using it and I don't want to steal any of the thunder on his shield or duplicate any of the other members' efforts.
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
Chris Boatcallie
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Probably ancients made the metal layer first and then "roasted" plank to "barrel in".
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