3 day rations

[Marcus Mummius]

I used Matt's recipe and must say that I find them tasty... :? P

[Gaius Julius Quartus]

I went to the store yesterday, looking for bucellatum ingredients. In the baking section, lo and behold, I found SPELT! I've looked around for this from time to time, but with no luck.

From the packaging, "Spelt is a non-hybrid primitive relative of our present day wheat that dates back more than 9,000 years." Somewhere I recall that this was used all over ancient Europe & the Mediterranean, Egypt, etc. So, now when I make my bucellatum, I will have the real deal to work with.

For anyone interested, it is packaged by:
Bob's Red Mill Natural Foods,
5209 S.E. International Way,
Milwaukie, OR, USA 97222
Website is www.bobsredmill.com

I found a 24 oz. bag for about $3.00. It is finely ground, almost like a boxed pancake mix, and should be easy to work with.

Also, does anyone have an opinion about using Red Wine Vinegar for acetum (sour wine), mixed in the proportions that Volker suggests above?

Gratias!

[Rufus]

I use 1 cup of red wine and a tablespoon of red wine vinegar per gallon. Tried allot of different variants first and arrived on that mixture due to personal preference, which I bet played allot into how you mixed it back in the day.

I have made it substituting just vinegar(about 1/4 cup) and it tends to have a much sharper taste and you better like vinegar!

[Mithras]

As a side note, travel 'biscuit' throughout the Med is shown in art as ring-shaped loaves big enough to carry over a stick. Sort of monsterbagels. I can't track this back to Roman days, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility that that's what their bucellatum looked like.

Really, can you point me to any online images?? I make alot of hardtack and find it filling and pleasant (crumbled into fried bacon is best, but also crumbled into broth or fried in olive oil). My receipe is good, wholemeal flour and salt+ water. Simple and easy, but I've been making mine square like Civil War hardtack. If I can get better evidence - I'm on to a winner! My 'craft' in Living History is not much more than a complete soldier's marching kit, from food to tools.

Love some images Carlton!

[Mithras]

I use 1 cup of red wine and a tablespoon of red wine vinegar per gallon. Tried allot of different variants first and arrived on that mixture due to personal preference, which I bet played allot into how you mixed it back in the day.

I have made it substituting just vinegar(about 1/4 cup) and it tends to have a much sharper taste and you better like vinegar!

That's about what I settled on too, though I'm not sure how much a gallon is without going to check (all metric here ).

I took some on a long 10 mile walk, and during the walk realised that posca was probably very popular because the vineager killed off any bacteria and made river water drinkable, wherever you were.

What do you think?

[Gaius Julius Quartus]

I had the same thought. Vinegar + wine would kill the bacteria you might find. Saves the time of boiling water.

But I wonder if they had different stuff in their intestines than we do, to help take care of such things. (For instance, when Americans travel to Mexico or Latin America, we can't drink untreated water - but the locals do, no problemo!)

[Caius Fabius]

In The Healing Hand : Man and Wound in the Ancient World, [amazon]Man and Wound in the Ancient World[/amazon] the author (Guido Manjo, MD) shows research that the vinegar killed bacteria, and the alcohol in wine kills bacteria, and that another chemical compound in wine kills bacteria, therefore "posca" is an excellent way to make most water have less bacteria. This book is an excellent read, even if you don't plan to re-enact a medicus, just because it helps you understand the various schools of medical thought in the time period we study.

[Matt Lukes]

I had the same thought. Vinegar + wine would kill the bacteria you might find. Saves the time of boiling water.

Dear Gods don't try substituting wine or vinegar for boiling environmental water guys- consider that your stomach acid is quite strong (~pH 1) and yet nasty bacteria ingested in contaminated food and water survive it to cause you problems- vinegar has a pH of around 3 (pH is a logarithmic scale so the difference between 3 and 1 is 100x), so if the hydrochloric acid in your stomach can't kill them all, vinegar sure won't. And rembember, adding it to water to the point where the mixture is drinkable dilutes the vinegar a lot further reducing it's ability to kill anything. Alcohol kills bacteria for a different reason, but we use a solution of 70% isopropanol to clean surfaces in labs where we can't use bleach (a far more preferrable agent). There's a reason that the active agent in water 'purification' tablets is chlorine.

Both alcohol and vinegar will kill bacteria to be sure, but are in the 'better than nothing' category- IF boiling isn't possible. I'd never trust them personally.

Matt

[A_Volpe]

wow, interesting.

I keep seeing sausages, bacon, dried/salted meats, veggies, beans, lintels, cheeses, hardtack and such mentioned....But what do you *store* this stuff in...Other than clear plastic Glad sandwich bags :wink:

as I can't imagine a linen bag would be good for the sausage and cheese..?

what kind of cheeses were available at the time?

is there an easy way to dry fruits at home? or just as well to buy a package at the store?

[Carlton Bach]

wow, interesting.

I keep seeing sausages, bacon, dried/salted meats, veggies, beans, lintels, cheeses, hardtack and such mentioned....But what do you *store* this stuff in...Other than clear plastic Glad sandwich bags :wink:

as I can't imagine a linen bag would be good for the sausage and cheese..?

Why not? Yes, the cloth will get greasestains, but that's not really a problem. If you don't lug around soft, oily cheeses or insufficiently dried sausages and bacon, I don'Ät think there's anything to be said against linen.

If you're worried about moisture getting in, try leather bags, but I've had good experiences with cloth bags for storing dried foodstuffs as long as you don't expose them to water directly. And cloth is much easier to clean afterwards thaln leather is, so no 'funny smell' after a few weeks.

what kind of cheeses were available at the time?

Salted, hard cheeses were made, and quite probably even smoked cheese. Most were likely goat or sheep cheese, but we know that cow milk cheese was also produced. Hard, preserved cheese was considered bad for your health, though, so if you have a choice, go for fresher stuff.

is there an easy way to dry fruits at home? or just as well to buy a package at the store?

Depends on your local climate. I ended up buying a fruit/vegetable drier because it tends not to get warm and dry enough around here. If you don't want to go to that expense, you can slice the fruit and dry them in your oven, with the door ajar, at around 75°C. But the power copnsumption is way out of proportion if you do it that way, so if you do it more than once or twice, a drier could aready pay for itself in power savings.

If you live anywhere where you get a reliably dry, warm summer with lonmg sunshine periods, you can just arrange the fruit on griddles or mesh trays (covered with mesh or mosquito netting!) and put them in a dry, airy spot. Occasionally agitate and/or turn them and you're doing fine. If you don't have an insect problem, just string them with a needle and hang up the string. It works fine with mushrooms or similar, but with fruit or meat if you have wasps, blowflies or fruitflies, they'll have a field day.

[Caius Fabius]

Dear Gods don't try substituting wine or vinegar for boiling environmental water guys- consider that your stomach acid is quite strong (~pH 1) and yet nasty bacteria ingested in contaminated food and water survive it to cause you problems- vinegar has a pH of around 3 (pH is a logarithmic scale so the difference between 3 and 1 is 100x), so if the hydrochloric acid in your stomach can't kill them all, vinegar sure won't. And rembember, adding it to water to the point where the mixture is drinkable dilutes the vinegar a lot further reducing it's ability to kill anything. Alcohol kills bacteria for a different reason, but we use a solution of 70% isopropanol to clean surfaces in labs where we can't use bleach (a far more preferrable agent). There's a reason that the active agent in water 'purification' tablets is chlorine.

Both alcohol and vinegar will kill bacteria to be sure, but are in the 'better than nothing' category- IF boiling isn't possible. I'd never trust them personally.

Matt

Of course, in the Modern world, you don't really want to settle with just boiling the water, because that concentrates the salts, heavy metals, radioactivity and chemical contaminants to a higher degree, If you are faced with using water and have time, it is probably better to distill the actual water, by use of a solar still, or catching the steam from boiling water on a distilling plate. The Romans only had to worry about lead and such, not pesticides, and modern pollutants.

In "The Healing Hand" referenced above, the author finds an additional sterilization molecule in wine, which helps kill many bacteria, but suggests leaving the wine water mix for several hours, depending on the type of the wine, (listed in a chart) do get maximum effect. I have to say this book was a fortunate addition to my library.

[Mithras]

I had lots of linen left over after making tunics, so made a few small limen bags, very simple, no closure, almost like linen pockets. Bolied eggs, hazelnuts etc can go in one, salami in another, smoked cheese in another, they can fold over ang go in my kit bag, or tie up with string. I have longer linen bag I made with a closure to keep hardtack in - I plan to take lots of hardtack to events. I also have some circles of linen that I keep dried lentils, wheat and barely in, just pulled together and tied up with string - these are for my 'marching rations' display. I also have some salted and dried cod wrapped in linen. I have beef jerky, but always eat it before an event!! I must make it taste disgusting - that way I'll never eat it!!

wow, interesting.

I keep seeing sausages, bacon, dried/salted meats, veggies, beans, lintels, cheeses, hardtack and such mentioned....But what do you *store* this stuff in...Other than clear plastic Glad sandwich bags :wink:

as I can't imagine a linen bag would be good for the sausage and cheese..?

what kind of cheeses were available at the time?

is there an easy way to dry fruits at home? or just as well to buy a package at the store?

[A_Volpe]

Caius Fabius -

The Romans only had to worry about lead and such, not pesticides, and modern pollutants.

...And animal (and human) pee and poo in the water, and insects and dirt runoff.... :roll:

[Matt Lukes]

Caius Fabius -

The Romans only had to worry about lead and such, not pesticides, and modern pollutants.

...And animal (and human) pee and poo in the water, and insects and dirt runoff.... :roll:

Exactly- I'm not afraid of modern pollutants in environmental water if it's a drink here and there, it's the pathogenic microorganisms that are the serious threat. And boiling for the time it takes to kill off the nasties isn't going to significantly concentrate the metals, etc. unless you're starting with industrial runoff :lol: and besides, those things are bad for you over the long term- so if one intends to make a habit of drinking stream water, then yes, distillation is definitely a good idea- but if you're talking about a couple of days' march where you'd get water along the way, it's no real worry.

It is interesting to note that there are antimicrobial compounds in wine- is there actually any ancient source that suggests it was used to 'treat' water, or is it just an interesting idea this doctor came up with?

[M. Demetrius]

Avete, omnis,
Sure there's an ancient reference right here: Paulus wrote in his first [recorded] letter to Timotheus around 62AD, "...and take a little wine for your stomach's sake, and for your many ailments...."

Must have been a known cure for ailments, then. [/i]Now we know that phenol compounds in red wind can actually kill some viruses. I doubt they knew what viruses were, but they knew what being sick was.

Hope that helps.