Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Fire of 64 AD - Secrets of the Dead episode
#1
Did anyone see the PBS Secrets of the Dead episode on the fire of 64?

Basically they turn Tacitus on his head.

I know my opinion of the show, but I was curious what others thought.

Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
Reply
#2
I didn't see this one either (perhaps nobody did??) - So, Travis, what was the thesis, and what's your opinion of it? Smile

- Nathan
Nathan Ross
Reply
#3
The thesis was that Tacitus was wrong and Nero was right, that the Christians did in fact set the fire of 64!

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_rome/index.html

My opinion of it is this.

It's Boudy's thesis that certain apocalyptic texts prior to the Revelation of St. john indicate that the Christians were an apocalyptic cult bent on the destruction of Rome. Tacitus is therefore not a reliable source and Nero should be exonerrated.

My take.

These apocalyptic texts cannot be linked to the Christian population in Rome.

The apocalypse of John is written after the fire and therefore is not evidence that Christians favored such a fire, only that they took contemporary events and contextualized them in scripture. That's a far cry from saying they wanted to burn Rome and thus forment the apocalypse.

Tacitus, the closest historian on the scene has no reason to take the Christians side, in fact, from other writings, its pretty clear he doesn't like the Christians, he has no reason to shill for them and put the blame on Nero.

Finally, if Tacitus and others only made one indictment against Nero, the show might have a case. Rather, the case against Nero's character is legion and burning Rome is not out of character for this tyrant. Neither is blaming the Christians.

Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
Reply
#4
That Tacitus is not an entirely objective witness is hardly news! I agree with you about the slim chances of the Christians being involved, but I tend to think that the fire was far more likely to have been accidental - fires broke out in Rome all the time, after all - there was another one in 80, which burned for three days and destroyed large areas of the Capitol and Campus Martius, and nobody seems to have been blamed for that. Starting a fire was easy, it seems, but to guarantee any sort of apocalyptic conflagration the Christians would have had to cause it to spread unchecked and prevent its being extinguished - in 64, I very much doubt that there were sufficient Christians in Rome to do anything of the sort. That certain of them might have seen in the fire evidence of divine wrath is a possibility, I suppose, and an unguarded remark to that effect might have swayed public feelings enough to make them suitable scapegoats.

Perhaps Nero was responsible, perhaps not. As a rather excessive slum-clearance program, the fire might have had a purpose, and even Tacitus grudgingly commends Nero's rebuilding program. Quite why the Italian archeologist quoted on the site linked above believes that the senators lived 'in the Forum', however, I don't know - but huge fires are by their nature quite indiscriminate, and not very easy to target against one's enemies in particular.

Was the program, I wonder, attempting to make the crafty insinuation that the early Christians were a sort of ancient Al Quaida, determined to wreak terrorist war on the ungodly pagans?

- Nathan
Nathan Ross
Reply
#5
Because TV needs viewers and blaming Christians, e.a. the Catholic Church, is very modern at the moment...the Sakrileg...Popetown...blabla...
Susanna

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.musica-romana.de">www.musica-romana.de

A Lyra is basically an instrument to accompaign pyromanic city destruction.
Reply
#6
I think the argument that Nero was not responsible for the fire is certainly credible. Fire was a perennial problem in the Subura, and his building plans were well known.

However to suggest that the Christians were not scapegoated for the fire is a little harder considering that Nero made scapegoats of so many people during his reign, jews, egyptians, greeks, etc etc.

Susanna,

I agree with you about the timeliness of this. It seems coordinated with the whole Da Vinci code nonsense.

BTW -

Do you have bigger pictures of your lyre! It looks fabulous! Do you have any recordings?

Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
Reply
#7
Yes, here you are:

www.musica-romana.de

just view the German site at the moment...recordings you can also find on our CD site ;-) )
We can also deliver to US...
Susanna

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.musica-romana.de">www.musica-romana.de

A Lyra is basically an instrument to accompaign pyromanic city destruction.
Reply
#8
I just checked the big book of history on the Rome Fire, it was started by O'Lucrecia's cow, when she kicked over an oil lamp.
Of course, the cow may have been a member of a radical sect, (or suffering from foot and mouth) especially if someone will pay to make a movie about it...... :lol:
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
moderator, Roman Army Talk
link to the rules for posting
[url:2zv11pbx]http://romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=22853[/url]
Reply
#9
Does the cow have an agent?

:wink:
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
Reply
#10
The show is already in pre-production at HBO as a limited series.

Called "Cows Of Our Lives" it deals with several famous cows throughout history.

The cows that saved the British at Rorke's Drift.

The cow that crushed Sir Badkarma, one of King Arthur's knights on the quest for the Holy Grail.

The German cows that lead the Roman legions into an ambush at the Teutoburg Forest in 9 CE.

The Allied cow that spied on the Nazi's in World War II.

Etc etc etc.

This is bound to be better than Rome, Sopranos and Big Love.

Look for it this fall.

:wink:

Narukami
David Reinke
Burbank CA
Reply
#11
Cows work for food, and don't have unions, and actually can be taught to take simple directions....
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
moderator, Roman Army Talk
link to the rules for posting
[url:2zv11pbx]http://romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=22853[/url]
Reply
#12
Quote:This is bound to be better than Rome, Sopranos and Big Love.

:lol:

Well someone from my church circulated a chain e-mail (a chain e-mail!!) protesting Big Love, trying to get us to boycott it. Now the whole pretension of people protesting TV they actually pay for was absurd enough (Stop us before we watch it again!!) but after a long list of its offenses someone replied with a great line. "There's a more important reason we should get it banned. It's boring." After that, the boycott fizzled.
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
Reply
#13
Quote:Cows work for food, and don't have unions, and actually can be taught to take simple directions....

:lol:

Thanks for the laughs!

Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
Reply


Forum Jump: