Hobnails and city life

[A_Volpe]

Sorry to confuse you, Brent.

Currently I'm experimenting with 1/8" wide leather "string", the kind you can get in a Craft store, like Michael's in the handcrafts section...I've tried a couple of different legnths, but it appears a strand long enough (uh, about a 1-1.5 feet?) to wrap around the front part of your foot 2-3 times seems to work good, and another length about half that to tie around your ankle...Another possibility is to have another of the longer legnth and wrap once infront of the ankle, wrapping towards the back at your heel, then up again, infront on the bridge of your foot above the ankle and tie it there, so when you look at the side of your foot, you have an X criss-crossing your ankle.

I'd also suggest trying with strands 1/4" wide or wider, perhaps they'll cover more hobnail surface and therefore better traction? It's a work in progress, so I'd suggest you experiment and see what works best with you. I've been told by others it's important to cover the heel more than perhaps your toes/ball of the foot, even if you're good at walking "flat", rather than heel-toe.

Although I've found so far the wider the strap, the more likely it will curl up under your feet as you walk/shuffle about, and makes comfort difficult, as it feels like you're walking with a twig or branch across your foot....With my particular case, I have enough adhesive residue from using ductape since "day one" that the straps are "stuck" in place, which actually seems to help with traction!

Hope this helps...I'll be trying to get some pictures up sometime soon.

[Flavius Promotus]

Paul, I've been to the Palatine Landesmuseum at Speyer this weekend, and to walk several times through a large hall with a floor made from polished granite slabs. I tried to walk carefully and did not experience any difficulties. So don't worry too much about the floor of York cathedral - unless you want to play jump'n run :wink:

[derek forrest]

The Guard greets gravel with glee. In Lancashire we found a Roman road because it was being mined for gravel and an eight foot thickness of gravel is not unusual.

[Tarbicus]

Thought it worth posting these caligae from the Limes Museum in this thread. Nasty.

[url:llsg24v0]http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/limes-museum/sqhm/alf/ogz/AF33.jpg[/url]

[richsc]

Those conical hobnails are correct. I only wish we could get someone to make them.

[Tarbicus]

This is interesting:
[url:1p1riqng]http://blog.arlt.co.uk/blog/BirdoswaldfortHadriansWall/_archives/2004/8/1/116311.html[/url]

The soldiers are clearly training on a stone paved floor. Would the floor have been covered with dirt, or could such training teach them how to cope with hobnails on pavestones?

[Graham Sumner]

Jim Wrote:

This is interesting:
http://blog.arlt.co.uk/blog/Birdoswaldf ... 16311.html

The soldiers are clearly training on a stone paved floor. Would the floor have been covered with dirt, or could such training teach them how to cope with hobnails on pavestones?
_________________

Hi Jim

That would depend on whether the Archaeologist/Illustrator were even aware of the problem. It would also be interesting to find out if the building had a stone flagged floor as illustrated or if it did if there was any evidence for an earth covering or a bracken floor as at some of the other wall sites.

Hobnails, yes some of the other accounts have stirred up similar memories. My favourites. Being on the Guard of honour to the opening of a Roman exhibition in Stockholm Museum by the Crown Princess Victoria. The ceremony was up the stairs, all polished stone in a hall with a polished wooden floor. The Museum foyer marble floor was so highly polished it was almost glass like and outside the museum entrance were very smooth steps worn and slightly sloping downwards as well. Add to that dim light and I was not wearing my glasses, of course. Outside the usual smooth cobble surface with different levels and manhole covers. The potential for disaster lurked at every step and I think I developed muscle cramp at the thought of collapsing in an undignified heap before the distinguished guest.

Recently I went back to Tarragona and saw again the famous archaeological walk along the walls which the Guard marched on several occasions for the Pompa parade. Sloping steps again this time cobbles, ending with the gateway, dark light, coming out to the bright sunshine, modern road surface smooth tarmac peppered with manhole covers and a sharp turn back into the Camp du Mars.

Sharp turns are always good especially for those at the rear which moves a lot faster than at the front. The only time I did come to grief was in front of the crowd assembled on the steps at the British Museum. I was the 'tail end Charlie' that day. I went up in the air horizontal and landed on my shoulders. I got up just in time to be hit by the Centurio with his vine stick which almost sent me back onto the floor again! As the crowd were mostly tourists and not locals there was no laughter instead an audible gasp of shock. I guess it must look quite spectacular when you fall in full armour and shield and spear as well. As you all know once you are going there is nothing you can do to stop it.

One day myself and one other guard member attended a lecture on Roman history. We had decided to stand to attention throughout standing either side of the lecturer.but I never realised until then how long Roman history really was. Although we were not moving the wooden floor was again so highly polished that my feet were constantly trying to move apart! Still it was rewarding when an old soldier in the audience actually praised us for remaining so motionless for so long made it worthwhile after all.

Graham.

[Tarbicus]

Hi Jim

That would depend on whether the Archaeologist/Illustrator were even aware of the problem. It would also be interesting to find out if the building had a stone flagged floor as illustrated or if it did if there was any evidence for an earth covering or a bracken floor as at some of the other wall sites.

Not sure, but I get the impression they're specific to the fort and could be comissioned by the fort's museum or trustees perhaps?

Hobnails, yes some of the other accounts have stirred up similar memories. My favourites. Being on the Guard of honour to the opening of a Roman exhibition in Stockholm Museum by the Crown Princess Victoria. The ceremony was up the stairs, all polished stone in a hall with a polished wooden floor. The Museum foyer marble floor was so highly polished it was almost glass like and outside the museum entrance were very smooth steps worn and slightly sloping downwards as well. Add to that dim light and I was not wearing my glasses, of course. Outside the usual smooth cobble surface with different levels and manhole covers. The potential for disaster lurked at every step and I think I developed muscle cramp at the thought of collapsing in an undignified heap before the distinguished guest.

Eek! I know Stockholm a bit and know exactly the ground you're talking about.

Recently I went back to Tarragona and saw again the famous archaeological walk along the walls which the Guard marched on several occasions for the Pompa parade. Sloping steps again this time cobbles, ending with the gateway, dark light, coming out to the bright sunshine, modern road surface smooth tarmac peppered with manhole covers and a sharp turn back into the Camp du Mars.

Aagh!

Sharp turns are always good especially for those at the rear which moves a lot faster than at the front. The only time I did come to grief was in front of the crowd assembled on the steps at the British Museum. I was the 'tail end Charlie' that day. I went up in the air horizontal and landed on my shoulders. I got up just in time to be hit by the Centurio with his vine stick which almost sent me back onto the floor again! As the crowd were mostly tourists and not locals there was no laughter instead an audible gasp of shock. I guess it must look quite spectacular when you fall in full armour and shield and spear as well. As you all know once you are going there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Ouch! Which hurt the most, your body or your pride?

One day myself and one other guard member attended a lecture on Roman history. We had decided to stand to attention throughout standing either side of the lecturer.but I never realised until then how long Roman history really was. Although we were not moving the wooden floor was again so highly polished that my feet were constantly trying to move apart! Still it was rewarding when an old soldier in the audience actually praised us for remaining so motionless for so long made it worthwhile after all.

Good man! I'm finding it difficult to believe Roman soldiers didn't use some means of non-slip accessory on slippery surfaces. The Jerusalem Temple, okay, but where it was a known factor for non-spontaneous duties, I'm really finding it hard to accept there wasn't something used, especially where a legionary needed to maintain some kind of dignity for official purposes.

[Graham Sumner]

Jim wrote:

Ouch! Which hurt the most, your body or your pride?

As you are encased in armour it is rare to get hurt just by falling, so pride definitely! I keep expecting to see myself on some video programme with a witty heading like 'the fall of the Roman Empire'!

Graham.

[Robert Vermaat]

I keep expecting to see myself on some video programme with a witty heading like 'the fall of the Roman Empire'!

[Flavius Promotus]

As to the legionaries training in a hall with a cobblestone pavement - how about keeping desaster at bay with a layer of sawdust?
(serious suggestion :wink: )

On the other hand, do we have any evidence for combat exercises to have taken place inside a building?

I also once slipped on a polished floor in my armour. Lay on my back before I even noticed what was going on. I did not suffer any injuries and even managed to keep some of the beer inside the glass, but a rivet popped on my right shoulder plate (waily, waily, waily!).

[Graham Sumner]

Hi Florian

Vegetius II, 23. says soldiers trained under cover in winter so they could still exercise even in bad weather.

The aisled buildings are interesting however according to Anne Johnson Roman Forts 1983 the following facts are observed.
The majority of them are in Germany and Raetia.
They predominate after the Antonine period but some are as early as 90AD.
Some may not have had roofs but that could be due to excavation.
Not all forts had them.
A high proportion of the forts which had them seem to have had cavalry or part mounted garrisons.


Beer, armour and a slippy floor are not a good combination


Graham.

[Primvs Pavlvs]

Is there any evidence to show that soldiers may have worn non-hobnailed shoes for training, guards duty etc etc? Caligae without hobnails?

[Flavius Promotus]

Beer, armour and a slippy floor are not a good combination

Dear Graham,

I had just taken a few sips before the catastrophy, so the first point can be ruled out

The Vegetius passage about cavalry and infantry training inside buildings under bad weather conditions (storm) in winter is interesting (musthaveforgottenit :oops: ). However, he writes that if it was neither raining nor snowing, the soldiers still had to train outside in winter in order to keep up their fighting condition.
(there is a passage in Ammianus, where the crews of a squadron of patrol boats had to row up and down the river Maas every night for over two months in order to keep the river from freezing over. Otherwise a group of Frankish marauders beseiged by Julian's forces in two abandoned fortlets would have escaped over the frozen river - the crews of these ships must have been quite tough customers! hock: )

Is there any evidence to show that soldiers may have worn non-hobnailed shoes for training, guards duty etc etc? Caligae without hobnails?

Not that I know, sorry - maybe someone else?

I think a number of unnailed carbatinae were found inside the praetorium at Vindolanda, but they most likely belonged to the praefectus and his family.

Maybe soldiers occassionally used unnailed footwear for off-duty purposes in order to preserve their nailed boots, but I don't find this idea very palatable. If you could afford nailed boots (and obviously soldiers were given three pairs per year - which were financed by deductions from their pay) you used them.

[Martin Moser]

Is there any evidence to show that soldiers may have worn non-hobnailed shoes for training, guards duty etc etc? Caligae without hobnails?

There are a few finds of both unnailed caligae and calcei, but the context (military vs. civilian) is unclear. Also those caligae end below the ankle, effectivly making them shoe-style rather than boot-style caligae