That\'s it, folks... I\'ll have a go at making a linothorax!

[M. Demetrius]

Then coat the canvas with "oil paint medium". This is a lead based whitewash with health warning stickers all over .

Please tell me you don't plan to put lead based paint on cloth that you will have next to your skin, and sweat into the cloth, and ... and ... didn't the label say something like "prolonged contact with skin is a health hazard"?
Why, exactly, do you think they put those warning labels on there? Lead is poisonous, is a cumulative poison at that (absorbed lead does not leave the body, and eventually becomes toxic, with very bad medical implications, honest!) and is nothing to fool around with. That's why it's practically outlawed and unavailable in the US.

I know, you were just joking, right? Because you knew lead could be absorbed from the cloth through sweaty skin, right??

[Dan Howard]

Heavy metals do leave the body - albeit slowly. They are expelled through hair and finger/toe nails. I agree that people shouldn't fool around with lead based paint.

[M. Demetrius]

Heavy metals do leave the body - albeit slowly

Of course, they leave more quickly when you're DEAD!
But that's not our goal, although it is historically accurate, right?

[hoplite14gr]

Well depends how much of these info were known then and how much was disciverd know. In the Greek islands famous for their white houses they used asbestos with amiantos. Only in the mid 20th century amiantos was discovered to be terribly carkinogenic. It is abandoned know but it did its damage for centuries.

As for gluing I thing rabbit-glue, raisin, or bull-glue would be used but with
criss cross stiching as Dan said and white colours not based on lead.White was not the only colours as Aristion's tompstone demonstrates
Kind regards

[M. Demetrius]

Ok, a different question.

Folks seem to be generally in agreement that the fabric can be glued to gether flat. Doesn't that make the inside layers try to wrinkle when it's curved around the body? I have not made one yet, but it's getting closer on my list of projects, so I'm curious. It seems like the shorter radius would cause the inner layers to compress, which could result in wrinkles, is all.

What say you all?

[Anonymous]

Layers of leather glued together will not breathe at all. It doesn't particularly matter how the leather is processed or what glue you use.

We don't glue layers together - the leather is only used as a core, to give a firm base for gluing the linen and to save time and effort in the construction, in much the same way as you suggest using cotton or other fabrics internally, to save money. Remember, we are not aiming for 100% accurate reconstruction, but we do want to get the VISIBLE details right.
This also answers Jason's point about leather not being supported by finds as the material for linothorakes. Mind you, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and this applies to the notion of gluing, too.

Even so, I'd be quite happy with a sewn Linothorax, rather than a glued one, if I had the time to make one. Sewing 16 layers of cloth together is damned hard work and very time-consuming. The Hoplite Association has set its standards to achieve a "united front" - we all agree to do things the same way. This extends as far as agreeing to use brass helmets so that the equipment becomes affordable to more people. Gluing the armour brings the construction within the reach of those who are more dangerous with a needle than they are with a dori!

I sometimes think that trying to achieve consistency across a group is unnecessary, but I would draw the line at using fibreglass armour. Others wouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Ok, a different question.

Folks seem to be generally in agreement that the fabric can be glued to gether flat. Doesn't that make the inside layers try to wrinkle when it's curved around the body? I have not made one yet, but it's getting closer on my list of projects, so I'm curious. It seems like the shorter radius would cause the inner layers to compress, which could result in wrinkles, is all.

What say you all?

There are several problems arising from bending the armour. One way to minimise them is to make the body section of four components - two side sections, a front and a back - and sew the edges to form a hinge. This would give the rather "boxy" appearance some Linothorakes have in the art. I didn't do this with my own armour, making the body in a single, wraparound section. This gives some cracking in the paint and the front does have some bubbles in it, when left unworn. When I put it on, these disappear as the armour warms and softens. To be fair to Dan, I must admit that I sweat a lot in my armour, but it is also true that I'm a sweaty beggar at the best of times.

Dan, have you made a sewn thorax? I'd certainly be interested to try one. I have too many other projects on at present to make one myself and, since I now have two linothorakes and a bronze cuirass, no necessity!

[Jason Hoffman]

with regard to the different scales of the shield and armour, the Greeks though being good artists were not always to concerned with proportion and scale, this image scale mismatch isnt unusual at all.

M. Demetrius to answer your question. Yes. It causes the inner layers to wrinkle and eventually de-lamination of the layers.

Jason

[hoplite14gr]

I agree with Jason,
Greeks were mosr concern of the apearence for the artwork in preference to accurate depiction. Only late hellenistic art becomes more accurate.
So "wrinkled" armorm might have existed in reallity.
Kind regards

[tlclark]

I agree with Jason,
Greeks were mosr concern of the apearence for the artwork in preference to accurate depiction. Only late hellenistic art becomes more accurate.
So "wrinkled" armorm might have existed in reallity.
Kind regards

And if the wrinkles were on the inside they wouldn't show up in the art anyway.

Besides, by the Hellenistic period, most of the exteriors of these things appear reinforced by plates, scales, all manner of things so those would cover wrinkles too.

How about the quitling method? Wouldn't it produce wrinkles as well?

Travis

[Anonymous]

with regard to the different scales of the shield and armour, the Greeks though being good artists were not always to concerned with proportion and scale, this image scale mismatch isnt unusual at all.

M. Demetrius to answer your question. Yes. It causes the inner layers to wrinkle and eventually de-lamination of the layers.

Jason

Neither of these has happened to mine in three years. And, as I said, I'm a particularly sweaty individual. It hasn't happened to anyone else in the HA in five years.

[Jason Hoffman]

Paul, what type of glue did you use?

[Dan Howard]

Dan, have you made a sewn thorax? I'd certainly be interested to try one. I have too many other projects on at present to make one myself and, since I now have two linothorakes and a bronze cuirass, no necessity!

I've played with a few prototypes but I won't be making a linothorax for myself till Jason finishes his research. I have plenty of other projects to keep busy till then. Jason's comment about glue is valid. The glues the Greeks used are noted as being susceptible to moisture.

[Anonymous]

Paul, what type of glue did you use?

PVA - As I said, the aim was to get it made, not to investigate ancient methods of construction. In the same way, my shields are functional,(and damn' good-looking! :lol: ) but constructed from plywood, using power tools. "I will pass this way but once" - and I've got to earn a living while I'm at it.

[lupus]

Damn! This must be VERY expensive to do, fellows! Re-making weapons/armors and such...
I was like to buy the Arwen's sword (from "LOTR" Trilogy's movies) and here in Athens, it costs... 580 EUROS!!! When the common salary is 500 EUROS!!!

Man! I would SO MUCH to get a FULL Lacedaimonian equipment of 5th century ("Corinthian" helmet with an officer's side-long plume, a "Kodonoschemus" cuirass, a pair of greaves, a "leaf" shape classic sword and... the "Hoplon")!!!
It would be a FINE decoration for my living-room!

LUCKY YOU!