That\'s it, folks... I\'ll have a go at making a linothorax!

[spyros]

May I add another list Paul?

Regarding the dipylon shield, it cost me so far material wise:

120 euros for the wicker main body

28 euros for the wooden frame (Bless Practiker stores and their DIY dep)

5 euros waxed heavy thread

I haven't bought leather for the outer cover yet but from what I've seen so far it will probably cost me something around 200 - 300 euros.

Total: 453euros (hopefully)

[lupus]

May I add another list Paul?

Regarding the dipylon shield, it cost me so far material wise:

120 euros for the wicker main body

28 euros for the wooden frame (Bless Practiker stores and their DIY dep)

5 euros waxed heavy thread

I haven't bought leather for the outer cover yet but from what it will probably cost something around 200 - 300 euros.

Total: 453euros (hopefully)

Seams to me, here in Greece (AGAIN!) the costs are SUPER HUGE, comparing with the costs, that our dear British are spending...

(And, I would not mention, that a SIMILAR profession in England, gives triple salary than the Greek one!... My buddy told me about a British nurse's salary, which is similar with a Greek... surgeon's salary!)

Damn... To make a descent Spartan outfit, like I would,... it will cost here the prise of a kitchen, a fridge and an air conditioner!!!
('Cause, I guess, making a "Linothorax" is CHEEPER than a "Bell-type" full-bronze cuirass...)

[spyros]

Lupus, "Baby steps" remember?

So far the only think I have are:

A pile of wood that one day will become a dipylon shield,
An unbleached chiton that I'm not satisfied with

and strange looks from the love of my life.

Oh also, an internet forum with people to talk, learn and go for a beer sometimes. Ahhhhh what more can you ask from life.

Also bless internet for small favors. A helmet in greece might cost you 300 euros but you can buy it from, say, france, for half that price.

Also, group orders will always lower the final cost.

[lupus]

Lupus, "Baby steps" remember?

So far the only think I have are:

A pile of wood that one day will become a dipylon shield,
An unbleached chiton that I'm not satisfied with

and strange looks from the love of my life.

Oh also, an internet forum with people to talk, learn and go for a beer sometimes. Ahhhhh what more can you ask from life.

Also bless internet for small favors. A helmet in greece might cost you 300 euros but you can buy it from, say, france, for half that price.

Also, group orders will always lower the final cost.

Yes, you're right...

And where in the hell can I find more (and many!) LUNATICS like ME, to "GROUP ORDER"... "Bell-type" full-bronze cuirass??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway... I WILL buy that outfit someday, as I bought a FINE triple piece of Samurai swords... (Generally, I'm a lunatic collector of swords & knives. I LOVE them... I own a dozen; ALL TOTAL ballanced, leathal weapons, not "toys"...)

Dear buddy Spyro (it's funny talking in English with a countryman!), do you know if there is an "on-line store" (maybe not "official"), selling Hoplites' pieces? I mean, SERIOUS pieces, not "JOKES" that I've seen in some sites!
Here in "romanarmy", does people making and selling goods?
And if yes, if I send a PERFECT design of WHAT I want, can they make it real?

Cheers...

[spyros]

Why don't you have a look at the marketplace sector of the forum?

also if I'm not mistaken armae www.armae.com offers discounts to members of th forum.

[lupus]

Checking right now...

[lupus]

Guys..., (hate to say this...), but I've study SO MANY photos (from Hoplite's festivals) these passed days... I'm also checked many "Roman festival's" photos... and came to some conclusions.

The Roman Army's re-construction kits (panoply, helmet, etc.) looking "more" close to the "real-original" thing...

The Greek Hoplite re-construction kits, looking FANTASTIC,... but "less" close to the "real" thing...

I'm explaining myself:

Because of the BRONZE material, these Hoplites' armor parts that I've study in the photos, looking quite "strange" and like they are mad by COPPER! :?
TOO MUCH bright metalic parts, for my opinion; and the most important, BRONZE CAN'T remain too much time SO BRIGHT!
I know, I have many OLD stuff from my grand-grand fathers (from Asia Minor era - Constantinoupole) and AS MUCH AS if I'm polishing them, they're NOT becoming SO bright!

What's the "catch" in these FINE Hoplite's parts that I've seen?

They are MODERN MADE weapons! With MODERN techniques and MOST important, MODERN tools & polish methods!

To me, if I would buy or create (kind of difficult to me) a Bronze Hoplite Panoply, I would KEEP it always... looking quite "used".

First of all, that ancient weapons COULDN'T remain bright long, 'cause they've been... USED quite often!
Even if you can imagine a Spartan army (notorious for their practice of polishing VERY MUCH their arms), very FINE & bright in their armours,... after the FIRST impact on the enemy lines, the brightness gone!

So... again I'm sorry, don't get me wrong, all I want is to share a thought that MAYBE will be usefull to you,...
... maybe you all should "add" some "aging" on the metalic parts.
Of course, the "Linothorax" or any other FABRIC parts would be "aged" in the Ancient Times, but FIXING/CORRECTING a fabric part is a fast job to do, even durring a battle's pause...

Also... about some plumes I've checked; plumes were horse-hair, yes? But how the Ancienst have these FINE plumes SO LONG high?

They were... "gum" these hairs together, with primeval kind of gum (don't remember exaclty the "elements" of that gum, I must re-check my books).
So... after so many conflicts, these plumes were TACKY in the exterior parts, but STILL "glued" in the inside parts, close to the helmet...
(Also, in some Spartan Officer's helmet I've seen, the "hair-tails" are TOO SORT...)

And... the colors, mates. Too much of many different colors... Colors were NOT SO MANY, in the Ancient Times.
RED (actually, "earth-red", like pantile), was the number ONE color. Not only Spartans, almost everybody used the red.
It's common sence why... Red soil & clay is EVERYWHERE in Mediterranean era!
Light "sky" blue, purple, orange... very RARE (if not say, non-existent).
Yellow was one of the colors (from onion's melting)...

(Anyway, I must re-check my books, I can't recall all these infos from my mind... I'm getting old...)

Anyway... that's some thoughts of mine... Fellows' Hoplite kits are looking FANTASTIC, like I said, but to me... a bit of TOO GREAT to looking like we travel back to time and saw REAL Hoplites...

Regards and sorry if I sound like a jerk!

[Jason Hoffman]

Iupus,

Yes quite right, most modern reproduction armour is made from brass, and depending on the amounts of copper and zinc you will get colouring that is different to bronze.

Polished bronze will also give a darker finish than polished brass which can be made to look almost like gold.

Yes, again the amount of colours present in modern hoplite re-enactors is a bit on the 'bright side' the pigments used in the ancient world were a lot more subdued. They did have a wide variety of colour though, look at the frescos in Pompeii as an example. The adhesive for the paint was milk based which can be extended to be a glue.

The other glues in the ancient world were hide or animal, which is a collagen based and pine resin.

I am not a blacksmith either, I am actually a history and economics teacher, when it cam to learning how to make things i took my lead from Matthew Amt

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/index.html

who has been bumbling away at this for years and has learnt how to make almost anything with nothing!

Just remember to have fun, if its not fun you will probably give it away after a short time.

and if all else fails check out manning imperial in Australia

http://www.manningimperial.com/

Who sell very good stuff, unfortunately they have prices to match, but it is nice to dream!

Jason

Jason

[lupus]

Gee... I thought I made all you guys mad, with my comments.

So, you agree with me.

Is it IMPOSSIBLE, of making these fine re-contruction more... "authentic"?

I've check some "Aspis" shields too; some of them having a SMALLER diameter and some having REALLY DEEP curved part.

"Linothorax" are the BEST re-contructions of all the Hoplites' parts I've seen!

Oh... THE BEST re-contruction set I've seen in all these images, is a guy that is wearing a "DENDRON" Mycenaean panoply from the "Bronze's Age"!
This is a REALLY GREAT and "most-close-to-accurancy" panoply I've ever seen, from the Greek era!

Legion's set-outfits, looking dramatic more accurated, though. Which is NOT so difficult to understand; these outfits are "too modern", comparing with the Greek ones and Romans used to REPRESENDING accurated in statues/paintings, their outfits - Greeks liked to showing a more "epic" versions...

Regards.

[Arthes]

Khiare,
well, I am on a low income, having no job at the moment, hence sitting here miserable instead of being with the Hoplites in Essex this weekend...
My linen was fairly expensive around 28 euros...but that made a female chiton, which should double up for late Roman female kit ... as Roman 'feminism' is rather enforced when out of the arena..and I would rather play a warrior!
Some Greek panoply is expensive compared with late Roman gear, the aspis compared with the scutum for instance, but a linothorax is fairly cheap to make if you gradually get the ingredients together at a reasonable price...
My only real option is to get together the basics together, and build on it....taking into consideration I am a female...
I've also got the 'buy kit, can't afford to get to events' - 'go to events, can't afford to buy kit', 'pay bills, sometimes can't afford either'...roundabout...
Sometimes, I get the impression that a lot of reenactors are in very well paid jobs or their other halves are.... I think I need to advertise - 'Male wanted - must have well fitting spare panoply to let' :roll: :wink: :lol:
regards
Arthes

[lupus]

Hello again, my lady...

So... make this clear for me; DOES PEOPLE RENT panoply in these festivals, to those that they DON'T own theirs?

Just wondering...

Regards.

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Khiare,
.... I think I need to advertise - 'Male wanted - must have well fitting spare panoply to let' :roll: :wink: :lol:
regards
Arthes

And how many times in the Chat Room did I let on to you how gullible I was, me being in my Mid-Life Crisis... Your not even trying...

LYKAON
otherwise...
Ralph Izard
who has no common sense when it comes to women in amour

[Arthes]

Lupus....

So... make this clear for me; DOES PEOPLE RENT panoply in these festivals, to those that they DON'T own theirs?

Not 'rent' (at the moment). Those who have spare items are generally happy to loan them, somebody was taking a spare kranos for me to use over the weekend, for example, but you can't keep doing that forever.

Lykaon....

And how many times in the Chat Room did I let on to you how gullible I was, me being in my Mid-Life Crisis... Your not even trying...

:oops: :oops:
Maybe I didn't like to take advantage... :wink:

[lupus]

Not 'rent' (at the moment). Those who have spare items are generally happy to loan them, somebody was taking a spare kranos for me to use over the weekend, for example, but you can't keep doing that forever.

D D

That's "loan" thing reminds me, a completely STUPID JARHEAD person's theory (a guy that he "claimed" himself "history expert", in "Hegemonia: City States"), that says the follow:

In Platea's battle, when - FINALLY UNITED! - the Greeks crashed the Persians and said "bye-bye" to their fleet sailing back to Asia,...
... the Plateans fought COMPLETELY NAKED (!) and came to the troops-gathering WITHOUT any weapons... and the rest Boeotians... "LOAN" them few "Aspis" (!!!) and other weapons to fight...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!

Some Greeks, besides the HUGE AMOUNT of weight they carried, THEY THOUGHT... "Hey, these buddies from Platea may need these old weapons; why not CARRY them with us and give them?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA!!!

I NEVER heard MORE STUPID theory, of that!

And that guy was TOTALY mad by supporting this CRAP theory!

You DON'T have to be a historic to understand, HOW UNBELIEVABLE STUPID this is, to claim it AS ACTUAL event,... IN PUBLIC forum!!!

Zeus! And the rest of members "bought" it!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHHA!

Anyway... I liked to share a JOKE with you guys...

Regards.

[Anonymous]

Greetings fellow "paulaallen"...


I hope you'll be able to ACCEPT me, in time...

...

Hell, if we hadn't already accepted you, we'd still be talking to you politely! :lol: